Why are they giving me money!?

[Jaytee]

I don't mean for my topics to always seem like I am complaining about this mod, trust me I love it. But I suppose people make their voices heard more when they have a problem, that's just the way things are.

So on to the problem;

In my recent game with KOJ, with the campaign settings M/VH, I have experienced an odd thing. My enemies and rival factions offering me money of varying amounts with no demands for anything in return.

For example, one time I contacted the Turks for a simple map information for map information request where they replied, offering me around 7,000 gold without demanding anything in return. I took the money and ran. However, my point is this, I am allied in a Christian league of all Christian nations. The Turks were fighting a losing war against the Romans who are my number one ally. So why would they give me money? My theory, they didn't want me to join the war against them.

But, I think I'm being too kind to the M:TW2 diplomacy though. As I have just tried again to get a map information for map information trade with the Ghorids. They are allied to the two countries I am at war with, the Omani and the Kypchaks. What do you think they did? Yes that's right, despite me not being anywhere near them and being an enemy of their friends they offered me just over 33,000 gold in exchange for....nothing.

Can anyone explain this? I can't explain why the Ghorids would offer me money like I could the Turks or the Seljuks (I border them) who have also given me large amounts of money. I have no history of diplomacy with the Ghorids, I am no threat to them and I don't border them. Yet they offer this large sum. I believe since the countries to the East of the Seljuks, the Omanis, Ghorids, Mongols et cetera have not had any wars in decades that the amount of money that they have saved means that giving away 33,000+ is the computer thinking that this amount of money means nothing.

Does anybody have any ideas?

[wudang_clown]

The mod is supposed to be played on VH/VH. It was balanced for this level of difficulty.

[Jaytee]

That's what I always play it on, but as mentioned in another of my posts I have spent too many hours stressing out on how to be a success for that game to become non-playable due to the mod crashing. So this time around I thought I'd have a medium level campaign setting so I can have more time fighting and less time thinking carefully about strategy. Despite the mod being designed for a VH/VH setting, what is at medium setting that triggers a faction to offer me large sums of money and not on a VH setting? I would love to be able to play this far in to the game on VH settings to see of the same thing happens but due to crashes it's impossible.↓↓↓

[Hyazinth]

I am playing on Vh/Vh and its sometimes the same. I explain it to me as they wont that i attack them and give me money as a tribute, like you.

[Jaytee]

So in fact it has nothing to do with me playing at a medium setting then!

Hyazinth, after receiving the 33,000+ gold from the Ghorids when I am nowhere near them and the fact that they hate me makes me doubt that the genuine reason for them giving me the money is the AI trying to prevent me from attacking them.

[Themis]

Ok i must be doing something wrong, because i have only had one campaign where i got money, my ERE campaign on VH/VH where Armenia payed me for an alliance, further ive only ever had demands for money
So how do you do it, im usually the biggest guy in on the map, yet they still want money from me

[Kavhan Isbul]

This is not unique to the BC mod, trust me - I have had this happen to me in other mods as well. Usually it happens a good time into the campaign, when you ask an AI faction for map. For some reason, the AI diplomacy is geared so that the AI declines sharing map info late in the campaign. Then sometimes, they decline with a counter of offering money, or a tribute, in case the AI is bankrupt, in return for nothing. I am not sure what triggers that behavior, but whatever it is, it is an M2TW issue, not a BC one, and I suspect it is tied to the weird reluctance of the AI to share maps late in campaigns.

[Jaytee]

It is very strange indeed. I almost didn't accept it because I knew that it wasn't right and that something was wrong about them giving me it for nothing in return, but the greedy side of me clicked 'accept'.

[C.Maximus]

It is very strange indeed. I almost didn't accept it because I knew that it wasn't right and that something was wrong about them giving me it for nothing in return, but the greedy side of me clicked 'accept'.

The inner struggles of Total War Morality....

[Bernem]

This happened to me in RTW:EB... so it's not even M2TW specific

[C.Maximus]

I don't mean for my topics to always seem like I am complaining about this mod, trust me I love it. But I suppose people make their voices heard more when they have a problem, that's just the way things are.

So on to the problem;

In my recent game with KOJ, with the campaign settings M/VH, I have experienced an odd thing. My enemies and rival factions offering me money of varying amounts with no demands for anything in return.

For example, one time I contacted the Turks for a simple map information for map information request where they replied, offering me around 7,000 gold without demanding anything in return. I took the money and ran. However, my point is this, I am allied in a Christian league of all Christian nations. The Turks were fighting a losing war against the Romans who are my number one ally. So why would they give me money? My theory, they didn't want me to join the war against them.

But, I think I'm being too kind to the M:TW2 diplomacy though. As I have just tried again to get a map information for map information trade with the Ghorids. They are allied to the two countries I am at war with, the Omani and the Kypchaks. What do you think they did? Yes that's right, despite me not being anywhere near them and being an enemy of their friends they offered me just over 33,000 gold in exchange for....nothing.

Can anyone explain this? I can't explain why the Ghorids would offer me money like I could the Turks or the Seljuks (I border them) who have also given me large amounts of money. I have no history of diplomacy with the Ghorids, I am no threat to them and I don't border them. Yet they offer this large sum. I believe since the countries to the East of the Seljuks, the Omanis, Ghorids, Mongols et cetera have not had any wars in decades that the amount of money that they have saved means that giving away 33,000+ is the computer thinking that this amount of money means nothing.

Does anybody have any ideas?

Ok that is funny.. really funny like i laughed a lot... i have been playing BC since the first version available and played VH/VH H/VH and M/VH all and never NEVER experienced that... on M/VH the campaign was still as difficult as VH/VH as i was constantly attacked and would get over extended due to my Nazi tactics but only difference i expereince betweenen difficulties is the money.. i just had more bank on m/vh over vh/vh.

[Dago Red]

Well, there is a very long and storied history of various Muslim city states and nations paying huge tributes to Crusader Princes and kingdoms. And vice versa. So, it is all very accurate.

The real life gifts would make those paltry sums seem like insults.

Remember, there was no concrete idea of Us versus Them in the Muslim world. Broken Crescent well reflects this. There were all kinds of petty squabbles and vast conflicts, both religiously and territorially motivated. It made more sense at various times for a Sultan in Damascus to ally with a Christian Prince in Antioch against rivals in Mosul for example... to say nothing of the Shia vs Sunni conflicts. It was the same in Europe.. which was aflame in war before the Crusade was called, and even then was not all one unified place or anything close to it. Europe has only started to look like that just now, it was only 60 years ago that the most grievous war ever fought was born there!

But i've never had this happen, usually i'm struggling for money. I'd play it off as a real deal and if you accept the money forbid yourself from attacking them.

[Jaytee]

Well, there is a very long and storied history of various Muslim city states and nations paying huge tributes to Crusader Princes and kingdoms. And vice versa. So, it is all very accurate.

The real life gifts would make those paltry sums seem like insults.

Remember, there was no concrete idea of Us versus Them in the Muslim world. Broken Crescent well reflects this. There were all kinds of petty squabbles and vast conflicts, both religiously and territorially motivated. It made more sense at various times for a Sultan in Damascus to ally with a Christian Prince in Antioch against rivals in Mosul for example... to say nothing of the Shia vs Sunni conflicts. It was the same in Europe.. which was aflame in war before the Crusade was called, and even then was not all one unified place or anything close to it. Europe has only started to look like that just now, it was only 60 years ago that the most grievous war ever fought was born there!

But i've never had this happen, usually i'm struggling for money. I'd play it off as a real deal and if you accept the money forbid yourself from attacking them.

You see that is all fine and well, but I just don't believe that the M:TW2 takes any of this type of history into account, especially since this is a mod of a game that is set for the most part in a different part of the world so when they made the game these types of things would not have been programmed since the factions we use here are not in the original. What I mean to say is, given that the reasons you have given above are most likely not the real reason as to why they are giving me the money I would love to know the real technical explanation and if this behaviour can be changed at all by the BC modding team.

[Dago Red]

Oh yeah I'm sure it's the result of some dodgy AI but since it still fits nicely with the kinds of things that went on it strikes me as a mild hiccup, and even a bit interesting/realistic. You gave your sensible reasons for why they were doing it and I was just going along with that... seems reasonable! "Hullo my friend, oh please take these riches with you, you won't be coveting our pastures now will you? No you are too great and wise and gentle!"

What sucks is when the AI won't agree to something reasonable with you. They are completely broke and wont accept trade rights in exchange for 7000 gold. Or you are kicking them up and down the Euphrates but they will not yield to peace. Those are bigger problems. At least you can decline these wild sums, and/or gift it back to them or others.

[Jaytee]

Yeah I know what you mean. It's such a shame that the TW games have never mastered diplomacy, I love politics and I believe it is essential to make this type of game as near to perfection as is possible.