The Basic Ideology Thread

[Frederich Barbarossa]

A thread to inform you of the pros and cons of all ideologies in a neutral viewpoint. Here we apply the ideology in ideological terms, not the way leaders have governed with them.



The Great List


Democracy PROS: Freedom of many things. Very liberal. Everything is done by vote by majority. CONS: Somewhat lacking in leadership because any politician can say something and then do the next.

Democratic Socialism PROSemocratic form of socialism. CONS: Same as democracy.

Socialism PROS: Somewhat trying to imply equality among men, as well as giving workers rights. CONS: Leaders who produce have a say at those who do produce. A healthy socialist society results in non-economic productivity. Individuals labors belong to the community.

Communism PROS: Implies Equality amongst men. Also defends workers rights. CONS: DIctatorships. Freedoms are taken away, and communism has very big economic flaws which could back fire and may seem unfair like equality.

Fascism PROS: The economy works togethor, is literally one. Strong and well rounded government. CONS: Somewhat radical in a few forms, and blocks some freedoms from citizenships. Generally characterized with dictatorships.

National Socialism PROS: Very powerful ideology in terms of economy, and social doctrines. CONS: Very aggressive in nature and war oriented. Also anti-semeticism is taken in too radically.


I will add more.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Ideology is a worthless facade for the character of a politician.

[Prodigal]

All of these things in the list may change depending on the environment the government is raised in, which includes the people, culture, and conditions. I'm sure that there is not one thing you stated that people wouldn't argue against and have their own separate opinion bout.

[Frederich Barbarossa]

that is so true but this is a generalization...

[Pious Agnost]

Also anti-semeticism is taken in too radically.

What do you mean by 'too' radically

[TheTrainee]

What do you mean by 'too' radically

Sure, you can be anti-Semites, but once you start really being anti-Semites then that is just too far. Duh.

??

[Enemy of the State]

Gross oversimplification and sometimes dead wrong.

[Monarchist]

Is it an urban legend that Marx believed 20% of a nation's population must die in order for Communism be successful in that nation?

No it isn't.

"Pure communism" in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless and oppression-free society where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made democratically, allowing every member of society to participate in the decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life.

Taking that definition... yes, it really is! Any state ruled democractically will always contain a tyranny of one large group over one small group. There is no way that can ever be called fair or oppression-free. It is human nature to be oppressive, you know. We cannot simply override our most basic greed because Marx demands it.

[Arch-hereticK]

Taking that definition... yes, it really is! Any state ruled democractically will always contain a tyranny of one large group over one small group. There is no way that can ever be called fair or oppression-free. It is human nature to be oppressive, you know. We cannot simply override our most basic greed because Marx demands it.

It's the closest theoretically oppression free idealistic political theory I know of.

But you are correct, common peoples' greed and small mindedness cannot be over-ridden, it is unworkable and wishfull thinking, but it's a nice dream, I think.

[Monarchist]

It's the closest theoretically oppression free idealistic political theory I know of.

How can that be? When the wills of individuals are subordinated entirely to the functioning of one bizarre collective, what happens when one person goes against everyone else? He will most likely be cast out of the collective or punished. What happens to this dissident if there are only Communist collectives (in the original sense of the word) across the world, then? He can only be punished, for there wouldn't be anywhere else for him to be exiled to! Now, that is oppression.

But you are correct, common peoples' greed and small mindedness cannot be over-ridden, it is unworkable and wishfull thinking, but it's a nice dream, I think.

I think it's a nightmare. Thank God I have the freedom to say so, unlike in a commune.

[Arch-hereticK]

How can that be? When the wills of individuals are subordinated entirely to the functioning of one bizarre collective, what happens when one person goes against everyone else? He will most likely be cast out of the collective or punished. What happens to this dissident if there are only Communist collectives (in the original sense of the word) across the world, then? He can only be punished, for there wouldn't be anywhere else for him to be exiled to! Now, that is oppression.

Theoretically everyone should see the benifits of equality and communal living and help those less fortunate.

I think it's a nightmare. Thank God I have the freedom to say so, unlike in a commune.

In reality it would be/was a nightmare, yes. But a happy go-lucky community based on trust and equality, free love and joy for all.

[Monarchist]

Theoretically everyone should see the benifits of equality and communal living and help those less fortunate.

The moment you say everyone should do X, and put some High Council behind the should part, it becomes oppressive.

Mmm.. I know of such a political state of being, and it is one where people can live in communities and yet remain individuals! It is one in which people might have their own property, yet live in an integrated community where charity and good will are respected and practiced. That practical ideology is called "Capitalism".

In reality it would be/was a nightmare, yes. But a happy go-lucky community based on trust and equality, free love and joy for all.

Sadly, human beings are not what liberals imagine us to be. The problem with Communism, as I see it, is that it assumes the fundamental goodness of people. We conservatives just don't believe that.

[Jingles]

Gross oversimplification and sometimes dead wrong.

QFT. I'm not opposed to this sort of thread, but we need some correct and more detailed definitions up here.

Is it an urban legend that Marx believed 20% of a nation's population must die in order for Communism be successful in that nation?

Obviously. I hope you realise just how many people 20% of a population is.

And reading your other posts in this thread, I'm hardly surprised. I can understand opposition to Marxism, but to try and argue against it when your knowledge of the ideology is clearly quite pitiful, is not a very good idea, especially in a thread devoted to the collection of impartial information.

[Tiberios]

Also anti-semeticism is taken in too radically.

I find this line disturbing. It's really sounds like you approve of anti semitism, just in a lesser way than the full blown kill'em all nazi stance..

[Frederich Barbarossa]

I find this line disturbing. It's really sounds like you approve of anti semitism, just in a lesser way than the full blown kill'em all nazi stance..

Yes but the whole idea of the thread was to balance pros and cons. Communism wasn't put with too much negativity. It is just to be equal. I am fascist but against genocide...

[Pious Agnost]

Yes but the whole idea of the thread was to balance pros and cons. Communism wasn't put with too much negativity. It is just to be equal. I am fascist but against genocide...

So you approve of Anti-Semitism?

You're not making anything clearer

[Frederich Barbarossa]

So you approve of Anti-Semitism?

You're not making anything clearer

OH no non sense I was saying yes in the sense of anti semetism being bad. LOl Id have a swastika in my avatar if I was.

[Monarchist]

Dead commieism?

Deadcommieism! You have hit the nail on the head, as usual.

[Monarchist]

I think that's against the ToS(wishing or talking about members of an ideology/ethnich grioup/nationalaity/whatever dead)

Communism is an ideology which advocates immoral slavery and state murder of people who are "unnecessary" to "progress". Why should I believe such people deserve life? It is against the T.o.S. to threaten people, but it is not against the T.o.S. to say "they should be dead, in my opinion". Besides, Communism is an ideal that a person can take up or abandon; nationality, ethnicity, and such things cannot be changed. You cannot possibly compare someone who wants Communists to die to someone who wants Blacks or Germans to die. One is voluntary, and the others are inevitable.

Of course, I cannot change the fact that I am gay. I can easily change my Capitalist ideals, though I will not. It is more immoral to wish for the death of the latter than the former.

[Arch-hereticK]

Communism is an ideology which advocates immoral slavery and state murder of people who are "unnecessary" to "progress".

No it isn't.

"Pure communism" in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless and oppression-free society where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made democratically, allowing every member of society to participate in the decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life.