City Militia/Police

[Fridericus Rex]

The Romans had two groups of people for security:

1.Vigilis Urbani (watchmen of the city) - firefighter and police for smaller police work, such as chasing run-away slaves. They were grouped as Cohortes Vigilum and lead by a prefectus vigilum (Prefect). They were a paramilitary organisation. Similar units may have been created in occupied cities (speculation).
2. In Rome they also had the Cohortes urbanae to act as security force.

The leader for security in Rome were:
a. Prefectus urbi or urbanus: for the administration of Rome
b. Prefectus vigilum for the Vigiles; he was at the equity rank.
c. Prefectus aerii as head of the guard of treasury.

Questions:
1. Is it possible to create a city militia based on a municipal building (not barracks); the AI may not build these units than as army units?

2. If this is not possible, build these units in barracks with 4 or 5 turns build cycles to discourage the AI to build these units, and force the player to leave army units in these cities until they can be replaced?
These units should not have any fighting capability, very low stats and should be build able in all conquered cities with Roman barracks.

BTW, I changed the Roman Funditores to reflect this for my Roman game; however, I do not know how to enable these units to be build in conquered cities. Have to bring them all from Italy. They are not used for fighting and do not add any major advantage to the player. The AI gets away with leaving only one unit in a city to prevent rioting.

Any thoughts?

[Quinn Inuit]

For the record, I'm not a huge fan of funditores...I don't think we have any record of them until Imperial times, and then only in small numbers.

Were the Cohortes Vigilum around during our time period?

I like your multi-turn recruitment suggestion. That might work really well. Long time plus a decent cost should make the AI not recruit them much. One change I would make is to limit them to cities which are being colonized by Rome, as opposed to clients (in the next version, there will be a distinction of some sort).

[Fridericus Rex]

To answer your question -

The first organized police force were the Roman Vigiles, the first group of nonmilitary and non-mercenary police. They were created by Gaius Octavius (Augustus), around 27 B.C.

Here is a short history of the Vigiles:

Augustus created a special unit, called the Praetorian Guard, to protect him from assassination. 9000 men were selected and divided into 9 cohorts of 1000 each. 3 of these cohorts operated as undercover operatives housed among the civilian residents. The Praetorian Guard eventually became involved in assassination plots themselves, and were later disbanded or reabsorbed by the military.
The second thing Augustus did was create a daytime city fire brigade of 600 slaves and spread them among 14 separate precincts. The slaves proved inadequate and were disbanded, but the prefect (precinct) system proved workable.
The slave fire brigade was replaced by urban cohorts, headed by the prefect of the urban cohorts. These were a select military unit of men who weren't good enough to get into the Praetorian Guard. There were several thousand of them. They were primarily responsible for fire safety during daytime hours; however, they were fairly inadequate at it.
The urban cohorts were supplemented by nighttime cohorts. There were several thousand of them, recruited and selected from among free men only. They were known as the Vigiles (watchmen) of Rome, and were empowered not only to fight fires but to arrest lawbreakers. The prefect of the Vigiles eventually became a powerful man, passing judgment on most lawbreakers, except for serious offenses which had to be turned over to the prefect of the urban cohorts. The Vigiles were armed with clubs as well as short swords. They eventually took over the duties of the urban cohorts.

Ref.: Dio Cassius, The Roman History, Vol.VI, 55/26


In my current game, I use the Funditores - 4 years recruiting time (prevents the player from blitzing or he has to leave valuable troops behind), 100 men per Vigil unit, low cost and low maintenance cost, very low stats (no value in fighting even low rebels). Playing as the Germans, the Romans build only a few units, at least not decisive large numbers; as usual they left few military units to protect the cities.
Picture: You may want to take the picture of a Roman lictor without the bundle. Sorry, I do not have any experience with graphic software.

Would like to know how to change the name so and how to recruit in conquered cities.
Can they be made to be recruit able from municipal buildings, since they are no military units?

[Quinn Inuit]

Doesn't that come after our 66 B.C. cutoff, then? Prior to them, how would Romans garrison a city that was in Italy but wasn't Rome/Capua?

You can change recruitability in the EDB: http://www.twcenter.net/wiki/Export_...RTW_Modding%29

[Caesar Augustus]

I thought that cities were not usually garrisoned in general, and that only places like provincial capitals or high value cities were garrisoned. Or at least, I assume the Romans didn't make too many formal arrangements about garrisons because they were usually allied to their subject peoples. So I guess they would have let the town's council decide about the defense of the city, unless there was a specific threat? I guess this would be best demonstrated just by using locally recruited troops?

Of course, as Rome developed into an empire, I think that there would have been some kind of standardised town watch implemented, but I doubt it would be mentioned in any sources.

[Domitan]

I think it would be nice to have some kind of militia for all settlements. I mean for example most barbarian factions like the gauls and germans werent all men of over a certain age aspiring warriors? Its hard to see say a gallic city being besieged with 15000 populance and only a token force of 240 people deciding to defend there homes. Especially when chances are they are going to be put to the sword

If there was a way to automatically have a certain size garrison to the city size of poor warriors. Not sure if its possible to remove the movement of this unit from the campaign map or else it would be pointless. Would also slow the game down and make sieges harder and perhaps more realistic.

[Fridericus Rex]

Sorry Quinn, I misunderstood your question in regards to time.

The Early Roman Republic had some sort of Roman law officers, called centumviri. There are sketchy information about their specific functions. The 35 tribes elected and choose equally first 100 and later 180 centumviri to represent with the praetor the court of justice.

In the Mid-, and Late-Republic the very complex system of Aediles/Magistrate (after 22 BC Praetors) and Lictors/Consul or Praetor came into use.

Aedile: This system was modeled after the fifth century Greek system (Athens) were the Greeks utilized Scythian slaves to assist the presiding magistrate (Pl. Protagoras 319c; Aeschin.2.173). Later this function was taken over by the citizenry.
The Aedile in Rome reported to a minor magistrate and could employ public slaves but they had very little power. They provided security at public and religious events and shared the fire protection responsibility with the tresviri capitales.

Lictors: Probably the more important group for our game alteration. More or less they had a symbolic function and were widely respected even feared, particularly abroad were their appearance with the ax (ax was removed when in Rome) in the bundle caused great concern. Their origin goes way back, probably all the way to the Etruscan. The bundle was a physical symbol of coercion; a symbol of power. (Cic. De Lege agraria 1.9) Lictors were attached to magistrates (2-4 Lictors), praetors (2-6 Lictors) and consuls (12 Lictors). They frequently were disposed to cease ringleaders of rebellions (dux seditionum; Livy 2.27.12).

You may want to call the militia units Aedile or Lictors, but with larger numbers than historically correct.
Lictors were also used in Roman conquered cities; probable the better choice for the mod.

[Quinn Inuit]

Hmmm...a lictor-led police unit. I like it. I'm not sure it's super-historical, but it seems like the best garrison option if you're trying to role-play the control of cities in Italy. If I can fit it in, I will.

[Carados]

Wouldn't a secret police network building fulfill a similar job?

[Caesar Augustus]

I had no idea that lictors were present elsewhere than Rome if I'm honest. It makes sense that the magistrate would take his lictors with him when on campaign, but I ddin't know they were used to lead police forces in the provinces.

I know it's only wikipedia, but it doesn't mention anything here, and describes the college of lictors to be fairly small: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lictors

[Fridericus Rex]

CA - Lictors were primary a bodyguard for various officials (different numbers of Lictors for different ranked officials) but they were used for law enforcement purposes as well, like picking up offenders, leaders of rebellions, etc.
They were highly respected and feared. They walked in one line in front of the official; it was a capital offense to cross their line, except maybe for a child (the official's son or so).
Officials in the occupied cities had Lictors who looked fierce with their axed bundles.

Quinn - for the game, were one need larger numbers in order to hold down city rebellions, you may want to choose a different name, like militia which of course is not entirely historical. Or you may want to call them Cohortes vigilum or Vigiles urbani which is historically correct only for Imperial Rome.

[HLandin]

This issue was discussed previously in another post but to summerize:

Garrisoning is not really mentioned until the expansion of the Roman empire out of Italy (first mention of garrison forces being when Sicily and Sardinia become provinces, to be governed/administered by a magistrate (with two new praetors created) and garrisoned). The usual Roman system prior to expansion outside Italy was to leave the existing governments intack so long as they were compatible with and subjugated to the SPQR, or as was less common, establish a Roman or Latin colony. These local governments would be responsible for such things as local garrisoning and supplying Rome with allied troops (alae) when Rome called. It must be remembered that until the stratification of the borders of the Roman empire in the Principate, Roman legions were mobile, moving from combat zone to combat zone or region to region as required, and did not have perminent base of operations (AKA no local or regional ties). Unfortunately, it does not seem possible to simulate this situation accurately in the game, but I'm sure Quinn and the Team will find a workable solution.

[Caesar Augustus]

[QUOTE=Fridericus Rex;6840210]CA - Lictors were primary a bodyguard for various officials (different numbers of Lictors for different ranked officials) but they were used for law enforcement purposes as well, like picking up offenders, leaders of rebellions, etc.
They were highly respected and feared. They walked in one line in front of the official; it was a capital offense to cross their line, except maybe for a child (the official's son or so).
Officials in the occupied cities had Lictors who looked fierce with their axed bundles.QUOTE]

I'm not disputing that the lictors were a bodyguard, or respected and feared. More it's the numbers that I question. I can't imagine the college of lictors being a huge body, particualarly as the were primarily bodyguard for officials pursuing the cursus honorum. So each consul had 12 (2 * 12 = 24), praetors had 6 I think (8 * 6 = 48), aediles had 2 each (I think there were 4 aediles: 2 plebian and 2 patrician), so that's another 8. Which gives us 80 for officials in office that year. I don't know how that works out for proconsuls, propraetors etc, but if the proconsuls and propraetors held on to there lictors that would give us a further 72 (presuming that each consul and every praetor the previous year took a province, and that they did keep the lictors). Which by my reckoning gives us 152, but if we double that to account for them having time off, sickness, visting their auntie in Campania etc, I can't see there being more than about 300 lictors. I'm not saying I'm right, I just don't imagine there being a huge number of them.

I don't doubt that the lictors contributed to the efforts of the garrisons when they were present in the cities, but I don't think they would have performed all the police work, or that they were a permanent entity in cities other than Rome.

EDIT: Hmmm, for some reason the quote didn't work?

[Fridericus Rex]

HLandin - You are absolutely correct. One of the Roman's virtue was that they left the institutions they found in conquered cities and tribal areas intact and worked with them, if possible. For instance, they never demolished any foreign temples and forced their religion on conquered people; at least not before Christianity became state religion. This tolerance was one of the basis for their great success.
All conquered provinces outside Italy had Roman administrators (Tax collection, Censors, etc.) beside a local administration, if it was left in place. A military presents was first local and than more regional.
Tacitus gives a good account on this, if you want to check this further.

In Italy, we have a different situation. This was much earlier than the Roman expansion.
The Romans made contracts (based on one of the two different contract forms) with the conquered cities and tribes; sometimes even with several subgroups of the conquered people (such as groups that worked with the Roman before the conflict). These contracts stipulated which land they had to turn over and what kind of citizenship they will get (Rome had 4 (5) levels of citizenship). Whether they had Romans present varies from contract to contract. Most contracts were in local language (Oscan etc.) to avoid the comparisons with other cities.
This is very detailed explained by Polybius; you may find a good translations.


CA - There is so much literature on the Lictors, that we really do not need to speculate.
Here is a list on numbers of Lictors as they come down through history all the way from Romulus.
Assignments of Lictors:
1. Romulus had 12 Lictors (legend the 12 birds in the augury, or from Etruscan, they had one from each of their 12 states).
2. Early Lictors - 30, drawn one from each Comitia Curiata. 24 for two consuls and 6 for the praetor.
3. Later Lictors - Consul 12, Proconsul 11, Master of the Horse 6, Praetor 5, Curule aediles 2.
Lictors were assigned to Priests and even to private citizens on special occasion.
I have no clue how many were in Rome at any given time.

According to Polybius (The Histories, III,22.1-2) and Theodor Mommsen (History of Rome, 1854-1856) Rome
had around 3,000 officials in Rome and Provinces in Late Republic and early Imperium; this number rose to 30,000 by the 3rd Century AD. The administrative cost (and their greed and corruption) were one more reason for the Empire's disintegration.

[Quinn Inuit]

Well, I was conceiving of them as lictor-led police units. Does that seem reasonable?

[Caesar Augustus]

Fair enough, I freely admit that I don't know a huge amount about lictors and how they were allocated out etc.

But surely there must have been an absolutely vast number of them if they did perform the role of police across the entirety of Italy?

[Domitan]

I thought lictors where almost like a ceremonial bodyguard for Consoles. They where permitted to execute people at there own discretion for very minor offences; even getting in the way of a console as he walks around.

[Quinn Inuit]

I think they were, but it sounds like they were occasionally on individual missions with a mandate to kick butt.

For the record, the unit I'm contemplating wouldn't be 100 lictors caning and axing people, but a unit of militia led by an individual lictor, probably represented by a standard bearer.

[Caesar Augustus]

Domitian - The lictors were a largely ceremonial bodyguard for all curule magistrates, so that would be both Consuls, all the Praetors, and the two Curule Aediles, and apparently the magistrates who were prorogued for longer than their initial term of office also kept ahold of their lictors. For example, a Praetor who was allocated Spain (yes, yes, Iberia) as their province and went to try and put down the latest Lusitani rebellion would have brought his lictors with him. Also it would seem that they were used on various public occasions as well.

Quinn - Ah right, I see. I was concerned that we were going to have vast bands of lictors roaming around the world. I'd be tempted to restrict their AOR to Latium, as I'm really not convinced about their usage outside of Rome other than when a magistrate was present. What do you think? I guess if you disagree it probably wouldn't be that difficult for me to alter it?

[Fridericus Rex]

Quinn - the reason why I started this thread was my perceived need for a cheap militia type type unit in the cities. The AI gets away with only one unit, often only a general, to keep the city from revolting; but the player must keep larger and often very expensive stacks not only in conquered cities but also his original cities. Now, I assume the rebellions are programmed on the city population and can not be altered.

For my game, I changed and used the Funditores to perform this "police work". I suggest to change this officially for the Romans (large number of cheap units with low maintenance but longer recruiting time that can be recruited in all Roman and perhaps conquered cities). Whether you call them Aedile (my preference) lead by a magistrate or praetor or anything else is only of historical importance but not for game play.

If this works, we can try to make changes for other factions later on.