6.1 Question on Forlorn Hope

[ShadowKiller2000]

So playing 6.1 as HRE and noticed that the Forlorn Hope only have 1 hp, and have a lowered defense.

Is this a glitch or correct? They had 2hp in Kingdoms.

Plus 1 for defense skill seems nerfed to me.

I remember when the Forlorn Hope would destroy other units....now not so much.

[JorisofHolland]

They're shock infantry now, like they should be. Don't use them in a battle line, they will die. Use them as shock infantry, supporting other units.

[Callawyn]

Too nerfed IMO to be worth it. Takes awhile to be able to get them, by the time you do there isn't much point. If they had more men, or 2 hp, sure.

[Caesar Clivus]

Too nerfed IMO to be worth it. Takes awhile to be able to get them, by the time you do there isn't much point. If they had more men, or 2 hp, sure.

Vanilla stats were too unbalanced. SS uses a whole new system of unit stats based on actual real life data. Weapon stats are based on how much energy they could deliver in an attack. Armour stats are based on how much energy different armour materials could absorb.

[Massive_attack]

I don't know, i see where the modders are coming from with regards to stats since forlorn hope were essentially a bunch of volunteers, out of favor soldiers, criminals, or poor/desperate men, so i can see how they would be poor at defending.

However i feel this unit deserves better stats. With regard to realism, the forlorn hope were not so much shock troops as they were a sort of suicide mission "assault force" mainly used for assaulting the walls as part of the first wave in sieges. That said, I should like to point out many among the forlorn hope were soldiers elected to the position, so i would say most of the unit had some experience in combat, at least enough to know how to block or parry a unsophisticated attack.

In addition, the armor given to them in stainless steel is substantial. How could someone be less effective at defending themselves in full top notch plate armor than some militiaman in light mail ? Even with the shield afforded to the militia, it just doesn't make much sense to me.

Personally, i think 2 handers should get a boost to certain defense stats, only slightly, not only to increase there effectiveness, but to make them more viable in the late era. As it stands now, these soldiers are throw away troops that you create for one battle then probably disband due to how hard it is to even train them and there comparatively long refresh time.

If you want to balance the forlorn hope, do it realistically: give them horrible morale, bad organization, a tendancy to charge without orders, and terrible fatigue rates. These all make far more sense than making the units armor inferior to most real late era counterparts.

Thats just my 2 cents though, doesn't count for much but there it is.

[Caesar Clivus]

In addition, the armor given to them in stainless steel is substantial. How could someone be less effective at defending themselves in full top notch plate armor than some militiaman in light mail ? Even with the shield afforded to the militia, it just doesn't make much sense to me.

Defense and armour are two different stats though. Defense is the ablity to dodge and parry attacks, whereas armour absorbs damage when they get hit. So just because a unit has heavier armour doesn't mean it necessarily gets a higher defense stat. That depends on the weapon being used as well as the quality of the unit. Of course that being said, I'm sure Forlorn Hope have different stats in the latest RR/RC from the version of RC in 6.1

edit: Also forgot to mention that Forlorn Hope have the desperate attribute, giving them +2 attack and -2 defense

[JorisofHolland]

You change this yourself, tweaking stats is very easy.