Koinon Hellenon

[etipac]

Koinon Hellenon

Would love to do a campaign with Koinon Hellenon but would like some more help.

1) What is the typlical battle roster for a Koinon Hellenon 20slots?(Sort of a composition of a legion or so although its different)
2) If I would try to re-write history what would I try to do and where would I try to go?
3)Are there any reforms with Koinon Hellenon? and how do they kick in?

And more info please.

Thanks
Etienne

[Titus Maximius Thongus]

I havent gotten far enough in my KH campaigns to get 20 unit armies, but most of the time my armies consist of:

1 general unit with their kickass hoplites
2-3 classical hoplites or other elite hoplite units
4-5 militia hoplites
2 skirmisher cav
2 archer units
1-2 slinger units
1-2 jav skirmisher units

[etipac]

What is the strategy one should take with them?? Since they are blocked by Mak and AS..

Etienne

[Mirionis9]

First capture Corinth and Thessaly (Larisa). Then conquer Creta. After that defeating Macedon and Epirus are your major goals. Balkans are yours to command. You will have a dilema: Italy or Asia Minor. I always prefer Asia Minor so as the Romans will have the time for at least their first military reform. I hahve played this kind of campaign in M/M and VH/VH. Good Luck.

[torongill]

To rewrite history you need to become independent again, i.e. get out of the shadow of Macedon and Epirus. Unite the Greeks, reconquer the Aegean and then expand in Sicily and Italy, but mind the Arch Seleucia and Egypt. Sooner or later you'll meet the Getai as well
Napoleon said that he needed 3 things to conquer the world - money, money and money. Develop your trade, that's why you need to conquer the Aegean - Continental Greece, the coast of western Asia Minor, Rhodos, Crete and Bysantion, then conquer a settlement with a gold or silver mine. Historically one of the key advantages Philip of Macedon had over the Greeks was his standing army(with the exception of Sparta no other city state had a standing army, they had militia), that he could fund with his silver mine. Having mines gives a huge boost to the finances of a state. When you have defeated Macedon and Epirus, you can turn your eye in whichever direction you please But if you advance in Sicily and Southern Italy, you'll clash with the Romans(unless of course they haven't already been swept by the Carthaginians or the Gauls )
I can't tell you right now about the composition of the stacks, because IIRC The greeks did not field great armies after the battle of Chaeronea, but I'll think of something

[-iceblade^]

as always, torongill is on the mark.

Mines are key. absolutely key. also go for rich areas. once conquering Greece, take out the Epirots and Makedonians, and then gun for Segestica and Dalminion. both have mines that will boost your income.

you can then go for a land invasion of Italy, go by way of sea to sicily/rhegion from Ambrakia, or maybe even go east. it's up to you. don't forget though, it is best to go for places that are in your victory conditions. from what i remember, the KH's victory conditions are spread out so you will have your work cut out for you.

enjoy

[etipac]

What do you suggest in playing it as H/H OR M/M?

Etienne

[torongill]

Well, according to the FAQ EB is best played at VH/M. This way strategically the AI are agressive and competitive, while not being a nuisance in battle. Maybe there's merit in challenging yourself with hard battle setting, but I fail to see it. If you refrain from building only the best units and instead use historically correct armies, then you'll enjoy even medium settings immensely.

[etipac]

Is VH/M too much for playing with this faction as MAK attacks you with a full stack within a couple of turns and after taking that island, and corinthia you end up with lets say half a stack and a -thausands mnai!!

How do you go about it?

Etienne

[torongill]

Emm, either you have misunderstood me, or else I wasn't clearly stating your priorities. You have to survive the first turns. When faction survival itself is guaranteed, then you can start conquering territories. I haven't played with the KH, so I was just giving you my logical conclusions as to what your strategy should be. As I have only faced the Maks in field battle, I cannot say with authority how to defeat them in battle. Still, the fundamental rule when engaging hellenistic armies: limit as much as possible attacking the phalanx head-on. You have to pin them from the front and attack in the back. You do that and I guarantee you they'll run. I shouldn't advise more, since my own copy of EB is heavily modified and uses RTW 1.6 BI, which is different from 1.5(especially for hoplites, they can use the shieldwall formation which visually is a hoplite phalanx).

In my Romani campaign I've conquered Thrace and ever since I've been fighting off invading Macedonian and Seleucid armies. I rely heavily on mercs, since I'm using thrace as a cash cow and recruitment area for thracian infantry(both thracian peltastas and the elite thracian infantry). so this has been my army composition(first image) and the after battle report(second). In the first image you cannot see the 2*160 heavy cavalry(soldiers like the hellenistic general) on his left flank.
The casualties you see among the hoplites(the 26 and 94 units) are from counter-charging those two cavalry squadrons. You don't counter-charge charging cavalry, you stay at the ready, with braced spears and the charge bonus of the cavalry turns on them.

[etipac]

I brought up a v good point.. I have eb1.2 installed on total war barbarian invasion... but how can I make it work on the BI engine?? Cause since I am using a faction were they have tons of phalanx it is better looking on BI.

Etienne

[ISA Gunner]

NEVER PLAY VH! I can not stress this enough! The AI gets RIDICULOUS money bonuses and can afford to spam stack after stack of their best units. This also happens on Hard! Medium/Medium is the only way to go for realism and fun. I was playing Rome once and by 200BC, the Seleucid Empire had conquered the Caucasus, Anatolia, Egypt, Parthia and was pushing into India. My invasion of Anatola required 12 full stack Polybian legions. And i lost half my troops conquering all the cities, beating back field armies and securing the borders with Syria and the Caucasus. This was on Medium. The Seleucids could afford to spam large armies with good quality troops that gave me a hell of a lot of trouble.

[Entropy Judge]

NEVER PLAY VH! I can not stress this enough! The AI gets RIDICULOUS money bonuses and can afford to spam stack after stack of their best units.

That's what *makes* it fun. Also, actually requires strategic planning - the ability to send enough troops to hold off recurring armies while taking cities, instead of just grinding armies down until the AI can't throw anything else at you.

[Knonfoda]

That's what *makes* it fun. Also, actually requires strategic planning - the ability to send enough troops to hold off recurring armies while taking cities, instead of just grinding armies down until the AI can't throw anything else at you.

I kind of agree with that, the only faction in my game that can currently employ stack after stack after stack is Arche Seleucia (Grey death, anyone?) This is on VH/M. Not only does this emphasize strategic planning, but buffer zones become a necessity. Having taken Makedonia and Greece, I do my utmost to keep the situation in Anatolia as volatile as possible, eg all the Northen cities, including Byzantium are Pontic, Ankara belongs to the Arveni, Halikarnassus and Pergamon are Greek, and Ipsus belongs to AS.

Its in my best interest as Rome, the dominant power in the West, to keep it that way. I make and break alliances, fund the Arveni, occasionaly send armies to protect my Allies (Pontos and the Koinon Hellenon) and so on.

Having said that, AS did destroy the Pahlava, are on the process of destroying the Hayasdan, and if it were not for divine intervention (IE me cheating), they would also have destroyed the Baktrians.

That, and I like the fact that on VH rebel armies actually attack your cities.

[Centrius]

Don't forget about the oh-so-annoying Yellow Fever.


They tend to overstack too once they manage to capture Antiocheia.

[Entropy Judge]

But if they don't, they tend to just sort of hang around while the Seleukids get their act together. One of those two do tend to become the dominant Power in the East, though.

[torongill]

I must admit, that playing with the romani maybe has made me tunnel-visioned about how difficult it is to play a small faction, but still I play on VH/M, I've edited the faction relationships so that the Aedui and the Arverni and Carthage hate me with passion. Carthage for example has military access through gallic lands. Still, I have to say that VH campaign is much more fun than H. I've also made most of the units cheaper, so that AI can recruit more stacks, leading to fun campaigning. AS have really become the 200 lb high-school bully east of The Hellespont and actually are in the habit of ordering me to become a protectorate and if I decline Tylis is besieged. The more challenging the play, the more awesome it is IMHO. When I last played EB, I was afraid of VH/M and played on H/M, while at the same time doing historical expansion. The result was that by 220 BC I had noone to fight(Carthage was helpless, the Gauls were killing each other), So I had to attack the 10 star rebels in Austria.
Now it's 213 BC, I've had to repel Gallic invasions, which were anything but harmless, the Carthaginians are trying to take back Sardine and are expanding aggressively in Hispania, while in the east AS has all but annihilated the Ptolemai and are sending stack after stack against Tylis. Combined with my modified EDU this is more fun than I've ever had with RTW(vanilla, RTR, RS, SPQR7.0 and EB). And especially since the only cheat I can use is the FD script and I don't use it for cheating(Vista unabled console).
In conclusion I have to say that even when I start playing other factions, I will remain with VH/M. It's simply too much fun.

[Centrius]

I feel you Torongill, I was always afraid of playing VH too because of the mentioned bonusses the AI gets. But ever since I played on VH it became addicting. So much more fun!

Like this Baktrian campaign I can't seem to stop with. Yellow Fever all over, fighting stack after stack. But it makes capturing their territories oh so much more satisfying.

I mean, look at the map! That's not something you see when playing a Medium or Hard campaign. At least, not as I've seen those.



219 BC.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

209 BC.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

207 BC.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If I hadn't blitzed all the way to Antoich there, I probably would've lost loads of territories to the Ptolemies.

[Entropy Judge]

I see the Sweboz are getting nice and stompy, that's good Pity about the Aedui, though.

[Centrius]

You should see the amount of full stacks the Sweboz have. Really sick.

And yeah, once the Aedui accepted to become Roma's protectorate they totally stopped doing anything, they're clinging on to Bagacos (IIRC) right now. At times they send small armies to attack the Averni. Which is of no use ofcourse.