FC:Fight one, The poll and comments

**Garbarsardar** · September 23, 2005, 04:51 AM

Here you can decide the outcome and discuss the arguments presented bu the duellists.

**Profler** · September 25, 2005, 06:07 AM

It's a damn near run thing at the moment, though imb's last post has in my opinion swung the balance in his favour, a good use of freshly introduced points, development of previous ones and of rebuttal.

**Garbarsardar** · September 25, 2005, 06:09 AM

It is an old postulate that grandfathers are quite partial to grandsons.

**Profler** · September 25, 2005, 06:13 AM

All we need now is for the Pater Familias himself to further demonstrate this

**Justinian** · September 25, 2005, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Profler

It's a damn near run thing at the moment, though imb's last post has in my opinion swung the balance in his favour, a good use of freshly introduced points, development of previous ones and of rebuttal.

I agree, I very much like the argument he's using. Can't wait to see Garb's response.

**imb39** · September 25, 2005, 10:50 AM

Thank you... Grandfather and Justinian. Truth be told, this has been enormous fun and my Beloved Father has only just begun... I'm not too convinced and am just pleased that I haven't folded already!

**Profler** · September 26, 2005, 11:10 AM

A hard left hook there as the fight swings back to Garbarsardar following the full invocation of his Holiness.

**Jesus The Inane** · September 27, 2005, 08:59 PM

interesting debate. I see some, well, two people have voted, should they not have waited till the debate was over before voting?

**Garbarsardar** · September 27, 2005, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by Jesus The Inane

interesting debate. I see some, well, two people have voted, should they not have waited till the debate was over before voting?

There must be some crypto-Greeks amongst the members...I also wanted to vote before the fight but I restrained myself...

**Dromikaites** · September 28, 2005, 10:13 AM

He, he, I thought the debate was over so I voted

. It may be useful to put in the first post the number of rounds.

Sepulveda is fighting an uphill battle in this debate because his views as they are so far expressed are nowadays shared only by racists. This might make people vote against his arguments based on their feelings and values rather than on the solidity of the arguments of Las Casas.

If I were Sepulveda I would emphasize the benefits of "civilizing" the Indians and I would deny that atrocities happen on a massive scale. I would call the atrocities "regretable excesses" etc. I would then show that "civilizing" them is in the best interest of the Spanish king, the Pope, the Cristianity and the Indians themselves (yeah, I know, it would be like arguing the Holocaust benefitted the Jews but hey, there are enough neonazis saying just that). In any case I would try to multiply my options instead of accepting to be confined only to the Bible, Aristotle and Ancient History.

**imb39** · September 28, 2005, 12:14 PM

Now, now - no coaching from the side lines... This is a bloody debate already (my neck versus his soul).

**Dromikaites** · September 28, 2005, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by imb39

Now, now - no coaching from the side lines... This is a bloody debate already (my neck versus his soul).

Oops! Sorry, I misunderstood the purpose of the thread.

**Profler** · September 28, 2005, 01:02 PM

I sense the approach of a mighty bible-slinging match... perhaps even one of biblical

proportions...

**Garbarsardar** · September 28, 2005, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Profler

I sense the approach of a mighty bible-slinging match... perhaps even one of biblical

proportions...

Funny that you say this: The main accusation towards Sepulveda by his peers, was that he did not fought the battle on purely theological grounds...

**imb39** · September 28, 2005, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Dromikaites

Oops! Sorry, I misunderstood the purpose of the thread.

Oh, its all for fun! I meant it in jest! Now if you have any advice for me...

**imb39** · September 28, 2005, 08:48 PM

Oh dear....

**Dromikaites** · October 02, 2005, 02:57 PM

OK, here's my take on what Las Casas might do if Sepulveda moves away from theological and Aristotelian arguments and into realpolitik: Las Casas should show why a harsh policy towards the natives is detrimental to the King's and Church's interests.