A few Questions about multiplayer

**SgtCoolBeans** · February 19, 2010, 12:53 PM

Hello I have been playing the Total War series since Rome but only now have I started to play online.

I have been doing fairly well so far and it is an absolute blast to play against real people.

I just have a couple of questions.

1. Light Calvary and Light Dragoons- what are the benefit of these units? In the campaign the computer doesn't really use all that great tactics so I never really used them a lot. But in general I have no idea how to use Calvary in general. Any tips? and do the light dragoons fire on their horse? or do they have to dismount?

2. General's Bodyguard- Is this unit necessary? does it provide a moral bonus or anything like that? In single player the general has a command rating and traits that help but they don't have that in multiplayer is their any benefit to these units?

3. Experience - This is a random one but does anyone use experience when building an army? I didn't for a while but while messing around I found that 2 units of fully experienced line (or guard) infantry and maybe like an experienced rifle made a worlds different and actually let me add more troops to my army. The units with experience basically seemed to just die rather than rout and they were a good central point in my army or flanks or wherever they were. But I have noticed that no one uses experience am I just playing sucky people and these units are beating them?

there are probably more questions but those are the main one. And any tips on using calvary effectively would be really appreciated.

Thank you very much

SgtCoolBeans

**daniu** · February 19, 2010, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by SgtCoolBeans

1. Light Calvary and Light Dragoons- what are the benefit of these units? In the campaign the computer doesn't really use all that great tactics so I never really used them a lot. But in general I have no idea how to use Calvary in general. Any tips? and do the light dragoons fire on their horse? or do they have to dismount?

Light dragoons are pretty common because they can, as you guessed, fire without dismounting; this makes them able to swiftly move into a flanking fire position.
Light cavalry I don't use much; their advantage is that they're faster than heavy, but they do require lots of micro to be effective; use them to charge, then withdraw.

2. General's Bodyguard- Is this unit necessary? does it provide a moral bonus or anything like that? In single player the general has a command rating and traits that help but they don't have that in multiplayer is their any benefit to these units?

Yes, it provides a morale bonus to nearby troops; it's not "necessary" as such, but I always take a general's bodyguard.
Thing is, the first unit you pick will contain your army's general anyway; him being killed means a huge morale debuff for your troops.
Some people use heavy cavalry units, but I think that's really a waste of money because it's dangerous to actually fight with him so they tend to stand around in the back anyway. Bodyguards are pretty cheap, they inspire and have some defensive, so I like them.
There's no such thing as command rating in MP (I initially thought you would be able to spend money to increase it, but you can't).

3. Experience - This is a random one but does anyone use experience when building an army? [...] But I have noticed that no one uses experience am I just playing sucky people and these units are beating them?

I must say I hardly ever spend money on experience, I prefer more troops over good ones, but that's a matter of playstyle, I guess.
Still, I'm pretty sure (and I have played games to that end) that my 18 units with no chevrons will beat 10 units with 3-4.

And any tips on using calvary effectively would be really appreciated.

1. don't run them into stakes
2. don't attack line inf in square formation
3. attack from the flank, preferably back
4. the strongest weapon of cav is their charge; usually, you should withdraw after the impact except maybe if you have heavy cav against light inf or artillery.

There's a pretty good "MP noob guide" write-up with general tips here.

**aletoledo** · February 19, 2010, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by SgtCoolBeans

3. Experience - This is a random one but does anyone use experience when building an army? I didn't for a while but while messing around I found that 2 units of fully experienced line (or guard) infantry and maybe like an experienced rifle made a worlds different and actually let me add more troops to my army. The units with experience basically seemed to just die rather than rout and they were a good central point in my army or flanks or wherever they were. But I have noticed that no one uses experience am I just playing sucky people and these units are beating them?

Taking experience is a waste. If you have leftover points, which can't be used to buy an extra unit, then adding experience is acceptable. 100 bullets will kill 100 men, no matter what their experience level. If I have two low experience units to your single high experience unit, I will flank you and shot you to pieces without losing either unit. In other words, flanking trumps experience.

Your problem of having units rout is the real problem here and that is addressed with your Question #2...

Originally Posted by SgtCoolBeans

2. General's Bodyguard- Is this unit necessary? does it provide a moral bonus or anything like that? In single player the general has a command rating and traits that help but they don't have that in multiplayer is their any benefit to these units?

A generals bodyguard, your actual general (unit #1), guards and elite cavalry all offer bonuses to morale. If you add these units to your army, then your units will not rout as easily. This is a subtle, yet important part of the game and really separates the noobs from the vets.

Once you think you have mastered the aspect of adding morale bonuses to your army, the next angle to explore is debuffing your enemies units. Elephants, artillery and shock attacks are some things that reduce your enemies ability to resist breaking. When combined together you can make nearly full units rout.

**TheAussieDigger** · February 20, 2010, 12:25 AM

a guard unit inspires regardless of the general being in it. does having a general in a unit already inspiring double it or make no difference?
besides whats the difference between having ur gen in a unit in the line compared to in a unit just behind the line when the one behind is at a far less chance of dying?

**daniu** · February 20, 2010, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by aletoledo

A generals bodyguard, your actual general (unit #1), guards and elite cavalry all offer bonuses to morale.

Are you positive that "your actual general" offers bonuses to morale?
Because I always assumed he doesn't if his unit doesn't have "inspire".

And yes, morale is a very important factor. Just won a game yesterday where both of us had equal kills because I got his army to rout.

**aletoledo** · February 20, 2010, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by daniu

Are you positive that "your actual general" offers bonuses to morale?
Because I always assumed he doesn't if his unit doesn't have "inspire".

I'm not absolutely sure, but it does seem to help. First, the unit with the general in it appears to stand up to fights just like a guard unit, despite no other inspiring units nearby. Second, when I group my units as if the general (typically in a vanilla line unit) has inspire, the units around him hold up longer, again despite no other inspiring units nearby.

This could just be anecdotal, because I haven't seen any developers post (that I remember) that detailed it as such. Maybe I've simply been lucky up until now, but that means I've been really lucky.

I recall an old post that Jack Lusted replied to, maybe there is a definite answer to this question in there. Also I will try some testing.

edit: I've tried some testing and there doesn't appear to be a huge difference with or without an inspiring unit nearby (general or not). I will have to try some more controlled testing.

**ccqwert7** · February 21, 2010, 12:11 AM

A note on inspiration

All Elite units inspire
All General Units inspire
The following none elite inspure

Household cavalry/low garde de corps/low horse guard/life guard of horse
Cossack Ataman Cavalry
1st maryland
MAYBE 2nd hussar (cant remember)

**TheAussieDigger** · February 21, 2010, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by ccqwert7

A note on inspiration

All Elite units inspire
All General Units inspire
The following none elite inspure

Household cavalry/low garde de corps/low horse guard/life guard of horse
Cossack Ataman Cavalry
1st maryland
MAYBE 2nd hussar (cant remember)

i would call 1st maryland elite and 2nd hussars do inspire

**aletoledo** · February 21, 2010, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by ccqwert7

A note on inspiration

All Elite units inspire
All General Units inspire
The following none elite inspure

Household cavalry/low garde de corps/low horse guard/life guard of horse
Cossack Ataman Cavalry
1st maryland
MAYBE 2nd hussar (cant remember)

The question that has been raised though is whether the 1st unit, acting as the general, gets an inspire bonus or not. When the general dies, there is a recognized debuff mapwide, but does the general offer a buff when in a standard unit (e.g. line infantry). Clearly if you put him in a generals bodyguard, he buffs because the generals bodyguard has this ability by default. How can we tell if the non-inspiring units holding a general offer an inspire by his inclusion?

On a related note, I don't see the effect of morale when I test it out against the AI. I take one (non-1st unit) Austrian line infantry, removing his autofire and pit him against an English Coldstream unit in my tests. Whether there is a general unit nearby or not, he always wavers at about 85 men left and breaks at about 75. Even placing other inspiring units nearby, in a stacking fashion, doesn't change these numbers. Increasing the units experience/veterancy does reduce these numbers, so the system can be altered, just not by nearby inspiring units.

It seems that I do better with inspiring units nearby, but now that the question has been raised, I can't honestly test it out. Can anyone provide a scenario where inspire can repeatedly be demonstrated?

**daniu** · February 21, 2010, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by aletoledo

On a related note, I don't see the effect of morale when I test it out against the AI. I take one (non-1st unit) Austrian line infantry, removing his autofire and pit him against an English Coldstream unit in my tests.

Can anyone provide a scenario where inspire can repeatedly be demonstrated?

Honestly, I couldn't think of any scenario to test it against the AI or I would have already;
now that you explained yours, it makes a lot of sense and I can't find any flaw.

Does inspire help bringing back units from routing only, maybe?
Or does the platoon fire of the guards get in the way (although I wouldn't know why)?
I always assumed (as it sounds you did) that it gave a plain morale bonus to the units around...

**average650** · February 21, 2010, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by aletoledo

The question that has been raised though is whether the 1st unit, acting as the general, gets an inspire bonus or not. When the general dies, there is a recognized debuff mapwide, but does the general offer a buff when in a standard unit (e.g. line infantry). Clearly if you put him in a generals bodyguard, he buffs because the generals bodyguard has this ability by default. How can we tell if the non-inspiring units holding a general offer an inspire by his inclusion?

On a related note, I don't see the effect of morale when I test it out against the AI. I take one (non-1st unit) Austrian line infantry, removing his autofire and pit him against an English Coldstream unit in my tests. Whether there is a general unit nearby or not, he always wavers at about 85 men left and breaks at about 75. Even placing other inspiring units nearby, in a stacking fashion, doesn't change these numbers. Increasing the units experience/veterancy does reduce these numbers, so the system can be altered, just not by nearby inspiring units.

It seems that I do better with inspiring units nearby, but now that the question has been raised, I can't honestly test it out. Can anyone provide a scenario where inspire can repeatedly be demonstrated?

I tried your scenario, but I got very different results. It was always austria vs GB

first I had a generals bodyguards, 4 guards, and a line inf. Auto fire was always turned off. It was against 1 coldstream line unit. They routed at about 30 men. Then I removed the guards units and moved the general across the map. It routed about 65 to 70 men.

**aletoledo** · February 21, 2010, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by average650

I tried your scenario, but I got very different results. It was always austria vs GB

first I had a generals bodyguards, 4 guards, and a line inf. Auto fire was always turned off. It was against 1 coldstream line unit. They routed at about 30 men. Then I removed the guards units and moved the general across the map. It routed about 65 to 70 men.

Very interesting indeed. I did your test, using four guard units and I can reproduce your result of the unit staying steady till the 30s! After this I did another test with one guard, one general and one household cav (all inspiring units) with the result being the 60s again (screenshot attached). So the conclusion is that four guard units work, but only a few inspiring units doesn't.

**Turumba** · February 22, 2010, 10:09 AM

About experience, have a look at "Le Fusil", last page on the right side.
Here you find "Le Fusil":http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...light=Le+Fusil

**Venset** · February 22, 2010, 12:07 PM

For each Chevron the unit will receive:
2 Accuracy
2 Reload Skill
1 Melee Attack and Defense
I believe you get 0.5 morale per chevron however first chevron always puts the units morale up by 1.

For example I have a unit with 6 morale:

If I give It 1 chevron it will have 7 morale.
2 chevrons - It will still have 7 morale.
3 chevrons - 8 morale.
4 chevrons - 8 morale
5 chevrons - 9 morale
6 chevrons - 9 morale
7 chevrons - 10 morale
etc

I hope this information is correct, I tested in game to get these results. When to use the chevrons? It depends on your army build but If you have spare cash left over and not enough for another unit, then add experience to the units who you think may need the extra morale etc.

I once put like 7 chevrons on a couple of the Landless Mob? units (early period Maratha) so I could have 150 men meatshields who wouldn't run away instantly (so their morale went from 2 to 6). The mobs actually never routed lol, though their defense wasn't so great they could certainly get some kills with those uber pitchforks. This was tested against the AI of course.