Revised Victory Conditions for RR/RC

[Point Blank]

I think we can all agree that accumulating 70 regions is monotonous, as well as slower in RR/RC (and much slower with BGR - its tough enough just to survive!). I'd like to re-work VC's so that they focus more around the holding or capture of cities crucial to that faction, as well as outliving certain enemy factions. The number of regions held should be very secondary.

This is how it woks in TATW RR/RC, and it works very well. Factions work towards their historical goals rather than just expanding mindlessly in all directions.

Eg Turk's goal would be to retain their homeland regions, some of the Byzantine regions (especially Constantinople), outlive Byzantines and perhaps Mongols + maybe Timurids, capture Vienna and Rhodes, maybe outlive Fatimids etc. In Late Era maybe capture some regions in Italy etc.

Please make some suggestions - make them as historical as possible and if they are too easy/hard we can alter them a bit.

[Caesar Clivus]

I'll start with what I know best

Kievan Rus
Regions: Kiev (obviously ), Novgorod, Ryazan, Murom, Yaroslavl, Moscow, Polotsk, Pskov, Halych, Zhytomir, Smolensk.
Outlive: Novgorod, Cumans

Novgorod
Regions: Kiev, Yaroslavl, Moscow, Smolensk, Polotsk, Pskov, Khlynov, Kazan, Abo/Turku, Reval, Riga
Outlive: Kievan Rus, Teutonic Order

Teutonic Order
Regions: Vilnius, Riga, Reval, Novgorod, Thorn, Palanga, Plock, Krakow, Visby
Outlive: Lithuania, Poland.

Denmark
Regions: Arhus, Uppsala, Skara, Kalmar, Roskilde, Visby, Oslo, Bergen, Hamburg, Stettin, Thorn, Reval
Outlive: Norway

Norway
Regions: Bergen, Oslo, Arhus, Roskilde, Inverness, Aberdeen, maybe Dublin
Outlive: Denmark, Scotland

Eastern Roman Empire
Regions: Include their victory conditions from the Basilea ton Romaion submod. They recreate the Roman empire
Outlive: Turks, Venice, Sicily.

[Point Blank]

Awesome thanks CC

[Caesar Clivus]

Cumans
Regions: In addition to the steppe regions: Kiev, Murom, Ryazan, Cherson, Tmutarakan, Kutaisi, Tbilisi and i'm guessing some of the Kwarzem regions.
Outlive: Kiev, Mongols

[Supercargo]

A suggestion for Hungary:
Regions: Esztergom, Várad, Kassa, Brasov, Belgrade, Zagreb, Iasi, Bucharest, Sofia, Sinope (? - the other castle nearby Sofia), Raguza, Venice, Vienna, Salzburg, Innsbruck, Halich, Zhytomyr, Antioch
Outlive: Venice, HRE

Optional: include all regions of Poland + Prague and outlive Poland as well

[Point Blank]

Cool thanks guys - this will actually alter how the AI approaches the game also, should be interesting.

[Tomato_Sandwich]

Is it possible to make other things other than regions part of the victory conditions like cultural advancement things. like in the first medieval. or is it 'hardcoded' to just regions?

[Caesar Clivus]

Is it possible to make other things other than regions part of the victory conditions like cultural advancement things. like in the first medieval. or is it 'hardcoded' to just regions?

Pretty certain it's only regions and outliving other factions.

[Black_Rider]

So, PB you will add this in the next update?

[Point Blank]

So, PB you will add this in the next update?

yes

[soulson]

Excellent!! A step in the right direction for sure.

[Graeme]

Wikipedia map with the Ottomans at their greatest extent, maybe good for a late campaigns conditions for the Turks. Maybe consider adding Vienna and Venice as they were grasping for those.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ot...pireIn1683.png

Antioch should be added for the Byzantines if it isnt already in the win conditions for BTR described by CClivus, they were always fighting for it under the Komenoi.

[Point Blank]

All sounds good.

[szelbisz]

Ok so maybe I'll add something about Poland.
If we would take this map as a point of reference for creating goals for Poland then i guess it could look like this:

Kingdom of Poland
Regions: Krakow, Halych, Thorn, Plock, Zhytomyr, Kiev, Pereyaslav, Palanga, Riga, Hrodna, Vilnius, Mensk, Polotsk and Smolensk
Outlive: Kievan Rus, HRE, TO/Lithuania maybe ?

However we could also add Stettin and Wroclaw even though they were not in Polish hands at that time.

[k/t]

Maybe 50 regions should be enough to win, that way you don't have to eventually attack people you were allied with just because you need their territories. I'm playing as the Crusader States and after wiping out Egypt I'm fighting the Byzantines and the Turks and I will then have to kill the Kwarezmians and the Mongols just to get to 70. Surely the actual Crusaders didn't go to Jerusalem with the intention of conquering half of Asia.

Supercargo - (? - the other castle nearby Sofia) - There are two: Scopia to the left and Adrianople to the right.

[Point Blank]

Maybe 50 regions should be enough to win, that way you don't have to eventually attack people you were allied with just because you need their territories. I'm playing as the Crusader States and after wiping out Egypt I'm fighting the Byzantines and the Turks and I will then have to kill the Kwarezmians and the Mongols just to get to 70. Surely the actual Crusaders didn't go to Jerusalem with the intention of conquering half of Asia.

Supercargo - (? - the other castle nearby Sofia) - There are two: Scopia to the left and Adrianople to the right.

Right, that is the sort of situation we are trying to avoid. Retaining control of the Holy Land, and outliving the Fatimids and Turks would probably be enough for example.

[DeliCiousTZM]

WHen i reached 50 settlements for Denmark it was like the reasonable max of what i should have. 50 settlements is long and not as monotonous, everything after that just strained at that point i was paying 40k in corruption and 80k for army upkeep in a way it was descent to conquer the world its just that the reward for it wasen't there

Omg the merchant city of venice 700 income..! and such if possible could u lower the corruption i think this would be very nesscery escpielly for the Cumans and the Mongols man i hold out vs the Mongols as the turks once and they just keept lossing ground to distance to capital.

and yeah PB great mod man me and my girl can turn it on just for the music sometimes realy big success there.

[Kawee]

I think we have to avoid making it too easy though. After all, we are choosing to play the "Long Campaign." For Crusaders, controlling the Holy Land and outliving Fatimids and Turks are enough. But for some, like Denmark, they should be forced to do a couple more things than just control the Baltic and outlive Norway because that would be too easy I think. Perhaps control Scandanavia, the Baltic (all settlements on the coast of the Baltic) and London? It would force the players to actually go to war on both sides of the seas. Basically, becoming the no.1 naval power in the North. Things like that.

Also, perhaps you can make it clear that the "Long Campaign" can sort of represent a historical campaign with set VC. But with "short campaign" you can make it the generic 25-30 settlements for all factions. It would be easy enough to warrant the name "Short Campaign," but also allow players to play a more flexible game, like migration saves.

[Navajo Joe]

Point Blank,

As far as capturing certain settlements, how about making for a purely economic reason, by placing a number of high value resources in the vicinity and putting it somewhere that the human player, is going to have to fight really hard to get at. Is it possible to script that the AI will also head for these areas as it too wants this for its economy?

This could create an all out Total War, as although the human player may control, the AI factions will also want it and keep pushing

[Loose Cannon]

Well, I agree that capturing 70 provinces is a bit of a chore and that once I have 30 provinces I find the AI unable to compete with me but you should leave the long campaign the way it is. If you want to make the short campaign capture & hold 18 regions (the most suggested by CC and supercargo) and outlive a faction or two that would be fine.