In WW2 Why did Germany declare war on the US?

[Mr. Scott]

I don't understand the motivation behind germany declaring war on the US after the Pearl Harbor attack by the Japanese. I mean the Japanese had a very loose alliance with the Germans and I don't understand why Germany would want to add another superpower to its enemies list.

does anyone know why the Germans declared war on the United States, i mean i know the US was sending supplies to Britain and France but declaring war on the US would not stop the flow of supplies and would only then commit the US military against Germany, further stressing the Germany military.

[hellheaven1987]

Hitler probably was too frustracting about the Lend-Lease, which completely killed his plan for starving British out and constantly postponed his Operation Sealion. So, when an opportunity jumped out, he simply decided to put all his frustraction into action and opened all hostile on Alantic occean.

[Mr. Scott]

Hitler probably was too frustracting about the Lend-Lease, which completely killed his plan for starving British out and constantly postponed his Operation Sealion. So, when an opportunity jumped out, he simply decided to put all his frustraction into action and opened all hostile on Alantic occean.

Hmmm good point. cause if they were at war with the US they could go all out on the shipping lanes between the US and britain.

[hellheaven1987]

Hmmm good point. cause if they were at war with the US they could go all out on the shipping lanes between the US and britain.

That was actually what Kriegmarine suggested, who was too lazy to identify the difference between US and Great Britain convoy - I mean, the flag is quite different actually; one has a lot of white stars, and other has a big cross inviting U-boat to come.

Sorry I put a lot of trolling stuff in the facts.

[Celsius]

exactly and German pride was too high to be slashed by a dishonorably alliance. Propaganda works on both sides.

[Monarchist]

Hitler was a cold madman who thought America full of Jews who whispered in Roosevelt's ears. He had a pathological hatred for America, as his rantings into the 1920's and 1930's consistently showed. There was almost a feeling, from Hitler, that America was the ultimate enemy, and not the Easterners.

A specific animus toward America manifested itself by 1941, for that was the year Hitler really began to implement the Final Solution. The first gas trucks came out in September and October, 1941, in Poland and outside Kiev, for testing. These were the first all-purpose machines to murder people, and so it is obvious that, by this point, Hitler was fairly set on his task. Now, who seemed to stand in the way of this task, having taken in hundreds of thousands of Jews since 1935? Why, America! Its "Jew capitalists", as he constantly referred to them, were seen to be the mythological enemy against which the Aryans would have to come up against, in the end. Even the Communists took a backseat to America, in his long-term view.

Perhaps the Heavy Water Hitler attempted to develop in 1943 really was intended for Washington, D.C.? All we truly know is that he disliked Jews immensely, thought they should be killed, and saw America as their safe harbour. In his "logic", if the thought processes of Adolf Hitler can ever be called that, war with America was a quasi-religious goal, and one to be completed with the help of his idea of Providence.

[eisenkopf]

There are a few things I disagree with.

Hitler was a cold madman who thought America full of Jews who whispered in Roosevelt's ears. He had a pathological hatred for America, as his rantings into the 1920's and 1930's consistently showed. There was almost a feeling, from Hitler, that America was the ultimate enemy, and not the Easterners.

Are these feelings somewhere documented? Your psychological assessment of Hitler is at odds with the majority of research that indicates Hitler was obsessed mostly with securing Lebensraum for the Germans. This included the removal of all Jews from Reich proper. At first, this would not necessarily mean extermination. Even early during the war, plans were drafted to send them all to Madagascar.

A specific animus toward America manifested itself by 1941, for that was the year Hitler really began to implement the Final Solution. The first gas trucks came out in September and October, 1941, in Poland and outside Kiev, for testing. These were the first all-purpose machines to murder people, and so it is obvious that, by this point, Hitler was fairly set on his task. Now, who seemed to stand in the way of this task, having taken in hundreds of thousands of Jews since 1935? Why, America! Its "Jew capitalists", as he constantly referred to them, were seen to be the mythological enemy against which the Aryans would have to come up against, in the end. Even the Communists took a backseat to America, in his long-term view.

The killing of Jews on a large scale had commenced with the invasion of Russia. Hundreds of thousands (probably more than a million, although I would have to look it up) were shot by the Einsatzgruppen and local collaborators before a single Jew was gassed. The gassing commenced under the initiative of Globocnik under the orders of Himmler, not Hitler. During the Operation Reinhard that lasted from summer 1942 to fall 1943, 2 million Jews were killed in the General Government. The extradition of Jews from the rest of Europe was hindered by fears of France, Hungary and others to give up the rest of their national sovereignty by handing over their citizens to the SS.

Perhaps the Heavy Water Hitler attempted to develop in 1943 really was intended for Washington, D.C.? All we truly know is that he disliked Jews immensely, thought they should be killed, and saw America as their safe harbour. In his "logic", if the thought processes of Adolf Hitler can ever be called that, war with America was a quasi-religious goal, and one to be completed with the help of his idea of Providence.

Again, these are unverified claims to me.

The main reasons for the DOW on the USA have already been stated:

The aim to attack supplies to the UK without restraint.

The complete underestimation of the mobilization and industrial capabilities
of the US, and their intention to send lots of troops and material to Europe.

At first the DOW even seemed to pay off. Early 1942 to summer 1942 was the Second Happy Time for the U-Boats, starting with Operation Paukenschlag in January 1942 right under the nose of the US Coast Guard.

[gsoxx]

Are these feelings somewhere documented? Your psychological assessment of Hitler is at odds with the majority of research that indicates Hitler was obsessed mostly with securing Lebensraum for the Germans. This included the removal of all Jews from Reich proper. At first, this would not necessarily mean extermination. Even early during the war, plans were drafted to send them all to Madagascar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zweites_Buch

Hitler repeatedly threatened the "Jewish-controlled" USA since the late thirties, that if they "drag" Germany into another World War, the Jews of Europe will pay for it. Roosevelt was openly anti-german after all, with things taking a turn for the worst after the Reichskristallnacht (can't blame him for that). Some historians also argue that the war with the US might be a reason for the rapid radicalization of the Holocaust after 41 for a number of reasons.

The main reasons for the DOW on the USA have already been stated:

The aim to attack supplies to the UK without restraint.

The complete underestimation of the mobilization and industrial capabilities
of the US, and their intention to send lots of troops and material to Europe.

I don't think that there was a complete underestimation at all, quite the contrary. World War I was in fresh memory of all participants. And since then the US had actually increased their leadership in all relevant areas.
So there is really no reason to assume that the German leadership was ignorant of all these facts apart from the all-time cliché that they were all retarded because they were...well...Nazis.

No the biggest reason was that war with the US had become inevitable from the German POV. After Pearl Harbor the US industry could officially switch into war-time mode. So there was little benefit for Germany in pretending that there is peace between those two powers anymore, especially regarding the whole convoy issue.

[eisenkopf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zweites_Buch

Hitler repeatedly threatened the "Jewish-controlled" USA since the late thirties, that if they "drag" Germany into another World War, the Jews of Europe will pay for it. Roosevelt was openly anti-german after all, with things taking a turn for the worst after the Reichskristallnacht (can't blame him for that). Some historians also argue that the war with the US might be a reason for the rapid radicalization of the Holocaust after 41 for a number of reasons.

Hitler mentioning the USA as enemy seems to me more the result of crude world domination fantasies than a concretely felt urge or necessity. After Germany would dominate Europe, a confrontation with the USA would be the result of conflicting geopolitical interests, not because it was needed to secure the survival of the German race. That's a difference, in my opinion. That it would inevitably result in war is only due to Hitler's utter comtempt and disregard for diplomacy.

As for the radicalization of the Holocaust, I don't think that the US entry into the war is a reason for the acceralization. There was constant bickering and infighting between those responsible for procuring labour force and being more economically minded (who wanted any "final solution" to wait for peace time), and the likes of Himmler whose fantasies of racially pure areas superseded any economic concerns. Later in the war, the SS with Himmler simply expanded their influence (especially int he occupied Easter territories), and were thus able to speed up the Holocaust.

I would be very careful to draw too many conclusions from Hitler's writing. After all, they tend to be unstructured, contradictory and unfinished. One only has to look at the heterogenuous and opportunistic way the occupation of Europe was handled to see that a true strategy (besides "fight Judeo-Bolshevism") was missing. There was no concept for a German dominance over Europe (or the world) that went beyond "kill Jews, kill Bolsheviks, get Lebensraum".

I don't think that there was a complete underestimation at all, quite the contrary. World War I was in fresh memory of all participants. And since then the US had actually increased their leadership in all relevant areas.
So there is really no reason to assume that the German leadership was ignorant of all these facts apart from the all-time cliché that they were all retarded because they were...well...Nazis.

It depends on who you ask, I guess. The more able-minded certainly saw the implications of a US entry into the war in clear detail.

No the biggest reason was that war with the US had become inevitable from the German POV. After Pearl Harbor the US industry could officially switch into war-time mode. So there was little benefit for Germany in pretending that there is peace between those two powers anymore, especially regarding the whole convoy issue.

Sure, I fully agree with you.

[Poach]

I don't think that there was a complete underestimation at all, quite the contrary. World War I was in fresh memory of all participants.

That depends entirely on how vital you view the US contribution to the Great War. Opinions on this board aside, Hitler firmly believed Germany lost the war as a result of backstabbing Jews and bankers within Germany, not because of US involvement in the war.

As a result, I doubt Hitler was all that scared of the US and her capabilities. His U-Boats were all over the Atlantic, unlike the Great War situation where the Grand Fleet was preventing any serious German naval action, he may even have thought that it would be an impossibly high risk for the US to consider trying to ship vast quantities of men and equipment across such a hotly contested ocean.

No the biggest reason was that war with the US had become inevitable from the German POV. After Pearl Harbor the US industry could officially switch into war-time mode. So there was little benefit for Germany in pretending that there is peace between those two powers anymore, especially regarding the whole convoy issue.

This makes more sense. Not taking action against the US, who was already in war industry, would only make Britain stronger and stronger. It was in his best interests to simply declare war and thus be able to engage all convoys without worrying about nationality.

[Lysimachos11]

Hitler was a cold madman who thought America full of Jews who whispered in Roosevelt's ears. He had a pathological hatred for America, as his rantings into the 1920's and 1930's consistently showed. There was almost a feeling, from Hitler, that America was the ultimate enemy, and not the Easterners.

A specific animus toward America manifested itself by 1941, for that was the year Hitler really began to implement the Final Solution. The first gas trucks came out in September and October, 1941, in Poland and outside Kiev, for testing. These were the first all-purpose machines to murder people, and so it is obvious that, by this point, Hitler was fairly set on his task. Now, who seemed to stand in the way of this task, having taken in hundreds of thousands of Jews since 1935? Why, America! Its "Jew capitalists", as he constantly referred to them, were seen to be the mythological enemy against which the Aryans would have to come up against, in the end. Even the Communists took a backseat to America, in his long-term view.

Perhaps the Heavy Water Hitler attempted to develop in 1943 really was intended for Washington, D.C.? All we truly know is that he disliked Jews immensely, thought they should be killed, and saw America as their safe harbour. In his "logic", if the thought processes of Adolf Hitler can ever be called that, war with America was a quasi-religious goal, and one to be completed with the help of his idea of Providence.

This is really nonsense, you most likely picked this up in literature trying to magnify American impact on the Second World War. Hitler also did not want to kill Jews simply because he hated them and liked to see them dead. The main reason is the Nazi's wanted a racially pure Germany, and the easiest way to dispose of racial inferiors was to exterminate them. The most efficient way of extermination turned out to be gassing etc. That is why the Holocaust is characterized by its systematic nature, not by its cruelty (except on an individual level). War with the US as quasi-religious end goal of Hitler or the Nazi party is really ridiculous and not supported by facts.

They may not have been retarded because they were Nazis – but being a Nazi did correlate well with extreme short-sightedness, arrogance and the easy ability to believe their own PR.

Actually the characteristics you name are more typical for American foreign policy than that of Germany. Especially short-sightedness is something recurring almost per definition in any American venture in world affairs, from the Second World War to Iraq in 2003. I'd characterize the Nazis more as romanticists, pursuing dreams more than very concrete achievements.

Tooze argues in his book, that final goal of the german expansion in the east was the creation of a common economic sphere that could rival the US. The Weimar had already recognized the US as the up and coming power, and pursued a strategy that made the US an ally in the payment negotiations of the Versailles treaty in the 1920s. The tool were large amount of credit loans by US Banks, as a german financiel break down would have dragged Wallstreet down the drain as well.

I think that Tooze is wrong. Russia was since the 19th Century Germany's main rival for European hegemony. Russia in the form of the Soviet Union has been the great upcoming power of the early 20th Century, not the USA. US and German interests, aside from economical rivalry existing between all states on earth, did not conflict: German and Russian conflicts however deeply conflicted. There is simply no doubt that Russo-German rivalry was the most important political clash of the first half of the 20th Century, as Russo-American rivalry would be in the second half. The greatest and most devastating war in human history was fought between Germany and Russia (as the USSR) between 1941 and 1945, this was the main contest that many Europeans had seen coming for decades, not least the Germans themselves.

This makes more sense. Not taking action against the US, who was already in war industry, would only make Britain stronger and stronger. It was in his best interests to simply declare war and thus be able to engage all convoys without worrying about nationality.

Exactly, Hitler hoped to knock Great Britain out of the war, which could only continue fighting through its supplies via the Atlantic ocean. If Great Britain could be forced to sign a negotiated peace, the USA would soon follow. The chance of the US fighting a war against Germany by itself across the Atlantic Ocean was very slim. The key here is that war with the USA was a calculated risk, as it was during the First World War. The case of the latter was very similar to that of the Second World War: cripple Britain (and France) by cutting their sea lanes, which was deemed possible inside a period of time before US entry could make itself felt on the war's progress. In the First World War, war with the US was a calculated gamble that failed to pay off, and it is very likely that the case of the Second World War is similar but with added ideological motivations.

[Boyar Son]

Hitler was a cold madman who thought America full of Jews who whispered in Roosevelt's ears.

not always though, in his book mein kampfe he included Americans as 'aryans'. but his opinion changes when ever he wants, so...

[Oklop]

Perhaps he thought that Japan will declare war on Soviet Union and make the Soviets keep larger forces on the east borders?

[Ulf]

I think Hitler believed the war with the U.S. was inevitable. In December 1941, Operation Barbarossa was slowing down, but had been largely successful. Perhaps he thought that the war in the east would be over before any significant American military contributions could be made in the west.
Also, Naziism possessed a strong dogma for fighting and defeating one's enemy using superior willpower. Defeating SU, UK, and US would only look more impressive on the German military rep sheet.

there was almost a feeling, from Hitler, that America was the ultimate enemy, and not the Easterners.

I've never read or heard anything that remotely alluded to America being a more important target over the SU. Bolshevism and Judaism were the enemies of Naziism and the SU possessed both. I have read that Hitler mostly thought that U.S. troops would be largely ineffective because of America's racial and ethic diversity in their military. no, the ideological war was in the East and never in the west.

[Poach]

Two reasons, really.

Firstly, he wanted to pressure the British by putting further strain on the convoys keeping the island supplied.

Secondly, he never really expected the US to deploy so heavily to Europe. He guessed that they would instead concentrate on the Japanese, since they posed the immediate threat to US soil, and send only a minority of their forces to the European theatre.

He gambled that, by the time the US had subjugated the Japanese and had their western coast secured, the British would have already surrendered or the Red Army would be so thouroughly beaten that he wouldn't have to face a two front conflict.

We ofcourse know this did not go to plan for Hitler, as the Americans were convinced to follow the "Europe first" idea, and the majority of US manpower and equipment was send to Britain to prepare for the invasion of Europe, the Pacific Theatre was of secondary importance in terms of resource allocation.

[GreyFox]

Are these feelings somewhere documented? Your psychological assessment of Hitler is at odds with the majority of research that indicates Hitler was obsessed mostly with securing Lebensraum for the Germans.

"The Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy" by Adam Tooze. I highly recommend it. Ity puts forward convincing arguments as to the state of the Weimar Republic and the rationale behind the Nazi grand plan.

[SonOfOdin]

Didn't the US declare war on Germany after Tojo attack Pearl Harbor?
And if you declare war on Tojo, don't you automatically declare war on Germany and Italy?

Something called : System of Alliances?

[eisenkopf]

Didn't the US declare war on Germany after Tojo attack Pearl Harbor?
And if you declare war on Tojo, don't you automatically declare war on Germany and Italy?

Something called : System of Alliances?

Nope, Germany declared war.

Further, the Tripartite Pact was no formal mutual defence alliance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_Pact

[conon394]

So there is really no reason to assume that the German leadership was ignorant of all these facts apart from the all-time cliché that they were all retarded because they were...well...Nazis.

They may not have been retarded because they were Nazis – but being a Nazi did correlate well with extreme short-sightedness, arrogance and the easy ability to believe their own PR.

In this case Hitler was mistaken in declaring war. The US was deeply ambivalent about a European war and while the US was clearly going to a war footing and going to cooperate with the UK without a German declaration LL to Russia and a not Japan first policy would have been far more difficult for FDR to manage.

[Aside – Mind don’t think it was a mistake to attack the USSR – just a mistake to expect a repeat of France and than to make it easy for FDR and Churchill with a declaration of war against the US]

If Hitler had any real expectation of Japanese cooperation – against the USSR or pushing hard against India and into the Indian Ocean – I would say it was worth the risk but he had no reason to believe, suspect or expect that.

Given Japan’s lack of a heads up Hitler could well have sat on his hands and let US anger drive a crusade against Japan. Sure the US would no doubt maintain is expansive Atlantic patrols, LL to the UK and such but it easy to imagine no CBO, no combined invasion of N Africa, and say also with less direct US involvement in the ETO an even slower move by the US to realize effective armor doctrine etc. All in all Hitler could well have had a year or two more to really focus on Russian without distraction.

[hellheaven1987]

That brings an interesting question - How much chance Kriegmarine has if they fight a standard navy campaign in Mediterran Sea??