"Alliance Backstabs: You know they are coming..."

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Playing SS6.2 M/M....Early era Turks. Well the Byzzies, Egypt, or K-Shah, take your pick. I choose to ally with K-shah cuz it's their standard practice to roll up the poor Seljuk's like a wore out bath mat. They declared war on Saladin {turn 29}then next turn poured five well mixed stacks on me, like a fat guy piling it on his plate at the buffet at Bob's Big Boy...

Naturally the Turks got spear militia & Horse archers with padded Armour. K-Shah's bringing well mixed death by Armageddon. Horse archer tactics any one...??.. Well, at least K-Shah gets NOTHING cuz I saw it coming....

Next Backstab.....if you please....

[Silhouette]

Best thread i've seen all week

I had been playing my Mongolia campaign, and had been allied to the Turks the entire, let me capitalize and colorize this. The ENTIREgame. It was 1492 (weird) , and the glorious Mongolian Empire reached from the Persian Gulf to... well... really really high up on the map. I had just subjugated Poland, when the Pope dies. Subsequently, this had an enormous impact upon the Ottoman Empire (somehow) and they decided to break ties with their good old buddies in Persia. No i don't mean the Kwarezmewhos, I mean the Mongols. Me. Yes, 350 turns and this betrayal. Let me stress the point that at this time, my empire consisted of 63 provinces, and the ottomans had roughly 45. I even GAVE them Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan as a gift. Anyways, I digress. They launched nearly a dozen stacks upon Persia, and I had to rage quit. I reloaded the game the next day and I thought to myself "Maybe if I load a turn back, they won't betray me!" Nope. It was inevitable.

I plan to lunge several stacks of Merguens, Druzhina Alani and Lubchiten at them. "Horse Archer Tactics" as you said, FTW!

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Stand up and testify as to their betrayal.... Can I get an amen, Brothers & Sisters...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And, oh btw can someone chime with some HA & spear militia tactics cuz David needs a new {turbo launcher} sling shot to slay five -eight stacks of Goliath

[Massive_attack]

Well, i wasnt going to mention this as it still riles me a bit, but here we go.

Im playing HRE, and everything's rosy. I allied fast, expanded faster, and got myself a nice little gross-deutsches-reich before the pope could even sneeze at Frankfurt.

Well i notice my allies in Denmark are experiencing a little "viking invasion" with regards to insane norsemen with ridiculous beards going medieval on the danish realm. "Whatever" i thought, untill the Norse took Arhus and assaulted Hamburg, declaring war, which i nearly tanked my economy to buy off the Danes.

Yeah, that gave me a reason to aid my comrades.

So anyway, after a long and drawn out war of a few years, hundreds of thousands of florins lost and many thousands of good rhinelanders dead after taking and retaking Arhus (giving it back to denmark every time) in addition to pooling aid packages to my pathetic Danish buddies, I decide "thats it" and cease all assaults at Arhus.

Then... disaster. Venice violates the alliance and besieges bologna, and as General Shepard says in Modern Warfare two, the whole world just f'n watched. Then they unanimously declared war. In one turn, europe went from lovin the reich to despising it. The next turn, i seek out aid from my dear friends the danes, surely, in my time of need, they would fly to the reichs aid !.... Unitll i found them besieging my forces at Wroclaw.

s.

I have a picture of the venetian betrayal, anyone who plays HRE on VH probably knows it all too well


Also, i resolved that political catastrophe by killing the pope, having my emperor die, and then allying the pope whilst giving him bags of money. Everyone loves money.

[Silhouette]

Massive_attack said:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well, i wasnt going to mention this as it still riles me a bit, but here we go.

Im playing HRE, and everything's rosy. I allied fast, expanded faster, and got myself a nice little gross-deutsches-reich before the pope could even sneeze at Frankfurt.

Well i notice my allies in Denmark are experiencing a little "viking invasion" with regards to insane norsemen with ridiculous beards going medieval on the danish realm. "Whatever" i thought, untill the Norse took Arhus and assaulted Hamburg, declaring war, which i nearly tanked my economy to buy off the Danes.

Yeah, that gave me a reason to aid my comrades.

So anyway, after a long and drawn out war of a few years, hundreds of thousands of florins lost and many thousands of good rhinelanders dead after taking and retaking Arhus (giving it back to denmark every time) in addition to pooling aid packages to my pathetic Danish buddies, I decide "thats it" and cease all assaults at Arhus.

Then... disaster. Venice violates the alliance and besieges bologna, and as General Shepard says in Modern Warfare two, the whole world just f'n watched. Then they unanimously declared war. In one turn, europe went from lovin the reich to despising it. The next turn, i seek out aid from my dear friends the danes, surely, in my time of need, they would fly to the reichs aid !.... Unitll i found them besieging my forces at Wroclaw.

s.

I have a picture of the venetian betrayal, anyone who plays HRE on VH probably knows it all too well


Also, i resolved that political catastrophe by killing the pope, having my emperor die, and then allying the pope whilst giving him bags of money. Everyone loves money.

I think this trumps all of us, haha. I too have noticed the Norwegians to be extremely aggressive around the Baltic in the Early to High middle ages. After that, they kind of disappear into obscurity, being replaced by the Danes. (In my experience)

[Concrete]

the whole world just f'n watched.

+rep for that sir.(And the situation.... I suppose...)
YES I CAN BE PETTY

[JohnDoe5x5]

I initially thought that in SS alliances can be maintained and the AI doesn't attack you randomly..

Hehe.. how wrong I was about that.. playing as Ireland on VH/VH Early Era I got the worst of it. After I took Caernevaron, England appear from the shroud and attacked my city.. I didn't even have time to contact them with my diplomat.

Ok.. maybe this was an *isolated case*.

Fast forward some turns, and got an alliance with Scotland vs the english. The alliance vs. the English went like this.. I grinded the somewhat semi-professional english army (they were starting to have armoured seargents, men-at-arms, mounted knights, retinue longbow men) with Spearmen/Ostmen/Gaelic Archers (Hobiguirs are a waste, better use your generals for shock). Meanwhile, Scotland sitted on it's ass and did Nothing.

When I weakened the english enough, they still concentrated their troops only at my border and let the scottish one undefended (the scots by now were having high tiers units).. and the scots took their cities one by one. I managed to get Exeter at least.

Then.. after some more time, the english had only London left. I had used only a single general until now against the english, and he was *epic*.. 10 star, 10 dread, 10 loyalty, piety 5, only 35 years I think. He had full stack, defeated with it the last english stack and then, out of the blue, I get = Massive Betrayal = and got my force surrounded be 2 Scottish stacks and got slaughtered..

The battle was crazy, my half stack was trying to defend against 2 quality stacks from 2 directions and I managed to hold 10 minutes causing them a lot of losses (I had only early tier troops, but at least they got padded + experience from previous battles).



I was so ING pissed about this, while I had to take all that english crap for some good hours of gameplay, the scots got their cities, even managed to expand in europe like getting 8 more regions and got allied with everyone (even the pope), and after ALL this.. I got excommunicated by getting betrayed

...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Then their allies Aragon, Castille, Norway and the Danes went D Day on my ass. W T F.



Thank 'god' I managed to tech enough to get Muire, they are so imba shock troops and fighters. I coupled them with Mangonels / Trebuchets with cow or fire arrows and the enemy routs like crazy. And if I get besieged, they can hold any wall / gate like no problem, they anihilate anything.


After this, I exacted epic revenge on the scots, got all britain and after pursuing them into europe, I got also backstabbed by a country I was good relations with.. France (military 2nd only to the fatimids). After some another epic battles (e.g. I defended Bruges with 3 muires, levies, a general and various mercs against 3 full france stacks of only professionals and actually won lol) I got half of france, I have an expanding colony in Norway and plan an invasion of those spanish inglorious basterds.


I know the game is gg know and I can conquer the world soon + got imba economy, but I think I'll get crusaded soon - I'm at war with 7 catholic nations (I'm allied with the moors and fatimids btw , only they love me) and Poland, Venice, Hungary are top powers in this game along with the islamists. I got excomm'ed at least 5 times until now (year 1240).

The pope only hated my ass the entire game, I wish I could convert my empire to another religion just to make him explode

I didn't have a moment of peace all the game, only got attacked out of the blue by anyone. Do they just hate Ireland ?

End of whining.

[Navajo Joe]

Mega Tortas,

Please can you an approximate breakdown of what the enemy stack comprises of, that composition should dictate your response

Massive-Attack,

Well, it is fair to say 'That your as popular as a rattlesnake in a lucky dip', death to the Reich!!!!

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Massive_attack....

Playing as HRE, you are indeed a brave man to try and network alliances... For me I allied with the pope knowing full well that he would drop me the second an Italian faction made a grab for HRE processions. From there I just bloody everyone's noses, {usually four wars at once} with the Reich's first and primary goal being the subjection of the Danes & Norwegians.

Also thanks for sharing and congrats on your 1st Rep Coin {Rahl Style}

Navajo....

K-Shah always rolls to the Levant with it's eight stack steam roller composed of all facets at it's disposal. I always cringe when I see....

Hvy cav, hvy spear, mace-men, 2 hit pt. Jihadies, hvy archers, and city militia all blended together like some nightmare tossed salad from hell. Bear in mind at my disposal is HA's & spear militia with padded Armour. Plus not even a dread general cuz the one i do have is kicking Byzantine Butt atm and the rest are Chiv generals..."You will stand and die with honor, No retreat".

[Navajo Joe]

Mega Tortas,

It appears that K-Shah are coming to the party with one serious posse of bad boys. Their units appears to be heavily armoured on the whole with the ability to shred your guys if you fight them on the plain. You on the other hand have fast mobile forces such as Horse archers, so I would attract them to fight you on a mountainside, use elevation to your advantage, keep your HA mobile, alot of micro managing, but their heavily armoured forces will tire in the sun and by marching up the side of mountains. Then as they reach your infantry, allow your javelin troops to pelt them, they will die like flies and your Padded Armour Spearmen can finish them.

[JorisofHolland]

The thread has the wrong name, it should be:
"Alliance Backstabs: You know they are coming"

[Ichon]

I had this one just happen last night. Playing a later era Aragon migration campaign with 6.2 BGR with the goal of moving Aragon from Spain to Thrace/Greek islands and having some fun with Turks, Byz, Fatamids, and later Mongols.

So I didn't bother to expand in Spain at all, went right for Tunis to get a launching pad further east and the Moors DoW me several times so I end up taking the 2 Moor territories east of Tunis and Murcia, then Sicily declares war and I think- this is distracting from the migration so I sell off my Spanish domains to Castile, Genoa, Portugal, and Murcia back to Moors(to keep somewhat a balance in Spain).

Invade Sicily taking Naples, Syracuse, Palmero in short order leaving Sicily only Bari and Caligari. Of course during this time the Pope tried to interfere but I ignored him. Thinking Sicily would be a good base the next few turns I sold off Naples to Genoa and took Bari and sold it to Venice, and left Sicily a single stronghold before vassalizing them.

Now I needed a few turns to convert the next regions I planned on moving into so I made an Alliance with the Pope after taking the westernmost Fatimid city in N Africa. Pope has Pisa and Bologna at this time around turn 47 or so and I just move priests around for the next 10 turns and prepare to take Crete, Rhodes, and Cyprus from Venice. At turn 55 I siege all the above mentioned and due to Venice apparently being disliked by Pope the alliance stands and the Pope sieges Bari.

So next few turns I feel sorry for Venice and sell them the 3 provinces in N Africa(2 huge cities and a large Fortress) while moving further east. Now I'm at a vulnerable moment in the migration as war starts with Fatamids, Byz, and Kievan Rus(they had taken some of Dalmatia and Constantinople).

Seeing as I had converted half of N Africa, ended Sicily threat on Rome, and now challenged the heretical Orthodoxy of the Greeks and fought against the unbelievers who had wiped out the Crusader States and taken the Levant(Fatamids also nearly finishing off Turks) that the Pope would be pleased...

Also even though most of my priests are near saints now from an early theologians guild and converting many provinces there is not a single Aragon cardinal which maybe has some effect... The Pope has taken Bari and laid siege to Venice at this point Rome lands 2 full stacks on lightly defended Sicily and the Aragon king who was already slightly deranged(the origin of the migration was when the holy city fell and I noticed the king went deranged that same year) went stark raving mad.

So this pisses me off because not only am I at crucial point in the migration but half the idea of the migration was to be the champion of the Pope fighting all the heathens. Now I am in a death struggle with a pretty strong Rome- only benefit I've got is my navy which rules the waters and ultra experienced army(almost all units I kept are silver or gold bars) but I think I sold N Africa too early... just with BGR mod I wanted to keep a high zeal faction for the coming invasion of Thece/Levant so needed to sell the hugely populous N Africa.

Now I've got to turn around my armies and settle the Pope down before really engaging Fatamids. I just hope Turks can hold on long enough so I can gift them a few regions so they reach the later techs/units to make some fun battles. Luckily Venice had half converted the islands I took for them so I can keep only 1 priest each island and the rest converting Antioch. It's almost turn 90 and be past turn 100 before Rome is dealt with... really slow migration.

Why would Pope do something so stupid? HRE is still alive and Genoa is controlling 8 regions while Pope also fighting Venice which rebounded strongly when I sold them N Africa... well... need to figure out what faction should get the italian regions Rome controls, I think maybe some to HRE and the rest between Genoa and Venice but its tempting to put Byzantines in Italy.

[Point Blank]

RR/RC alliances are a bit too permanent, I might try to adjust them for more backstabbing. Or, you can use the included Byg AI for more backstabbing behaviour.

[Silhouette]

OT: But, JohnDoe, is your avatar Luna from DotA?

[JohnDoe5x5]

OT: But, JohnDoe, is your avatar Luna from DotA?

Vengeful Spirit

[Tetsu]

Playing as France, epic backstabbage by Geona, ended in HRE, Castille, Aragon and England all attacking me at once 20 years of furious fighting later, HRE is dead, England is dead, Geona is Ally, Aragon is Ally (After losing half its lands), Castille is on it's way out.. I do not forgive, I do not forget.

[Snelhest]

France, the great backstabber, well atleast for me.

This is from an old Irish campaign.
After conquering all of britain I was looking for new ways to expand. And as the Moors had taken all of Iberia I decided to attack them, and allying with France against or common enemy for this purpose.

Having taken most of Iberia from the Moors, the French obviously thought it would be an excellent idea to attack me.

Strat map right before the attack.



A little backstabb like that isn't to unusual but the annoying part is that I was farily unprepared especially when it comes in the form of a battle like this.



Yeah three enemy stacks against my poor three quarter one of fresh troops. Was one crazy battle, though obviously my general had to go run into the last enemy company (voulgiers) and getting himself killed while chasing routing enemies.

[JorisofHolland]

He's just a general. If he gets himself killed by routing units, he's not worth keeping anyway Be happy he killed himself, so you don't have to do it!

[gluteus maximus aurelius]

Hmm, I've been playing all this time wildly believing that alliances couldn't be broken in this mod...In about 30 campaigns I've been attacked by an ally only once, while playing as the Kwazzies I allied with the Mongols when they spawned, hoping that they'd just scoot off to the Holy Land or something. They didn't. Other than that though, I've never been backstabbed whilst playing SS. I'm only playing 6.1 with Basilea ton Romaion submod, if that makes any difference. Your tales of woe amuse me, mwahahahaha!

[Massive_attack]

Hmm, I've been playing all this time wildly believing that alliances couldn't be broken in this mod...In about 30 campaigns I've been attacked by an ally only once, while playing as the Kwazzies I allied with the Mongols when they spawned, hoping that they'd just scoot off to the Holy Land or something. They didn't. Other than that though, I've never been backstabbed whilst playing SS. I'm only playing 6.1 with Basilea ton Romaion submod, if that makes any difference. Your tales of woe amuse me, mwahahahaha!

Play. As. The HRE.