Picking a faction in DLV

[RCOG]

Ive been busy for quite a while installing this mod + a combination of numerous sub mods, after having decided that this mod is really good, and seems to have a larger variety in units for certain factions than other mods Ive tried, I have been playing several custom battles in the last few days to check the factions rosters and their units etc.

In preparation for a DLV, Ive read a variety of manuals in regards to the campaign scripts.
However, when the time came for me to select a faction, I have narrowed down what factions I would want to play, to the Teutonic Order,The Kingdom of Jerusalem and the Seljuk turks.

The faction I would like to play the most would be the teutonic order, yet it seems they are in a bad position, and if Im not mistaken, I think the HRE can gain access to their elite units, if so, what sort of incentive is left to play as them?.

The Seljuk Turks, well, after seeing their variety of horse archers, foot archers, infantry (Jannisaries all the way) and other units as well, Ive considered playing as them,the only reason Im hesitating, is because the last campaign I finished was in SS as the mongol horde with the same music repeating itself, eventually making me hate the music,
therefore Id like to avoid listening to that music for another entire campaign.

The Kingdom of Jerusalem, well, I always prefer to play as a Catholic faction due to political struggles with the papacy and the crusades, however, their position seems to be bad and I think I wont be able to handle that campaign, seeing as my attempts in playing the KOJ in BC ended up in campaign loses.

Thirdly, lets say that Ive decided which of these factions I should play, now, which campaign should I try, historical or main?, what is easier?, as I would like to have a nice slow paced game without all too many difficulties, I dont want to play as England, Ive done it several times, and would like to not play as them for a long long time.

What faction of these do you recommend in terms of difficulty (medium), should it be main or historical campaign? Advice on your recommended faction would be appreciated, as I havent played m2tw for a long time now, although I still do remember how the game works, for the most part.

Once the campaign is on its way, I simply have to ask this, how long will it take untill I achieve access to the medium/top tier units? because I would not like to have militia wars for 150 turns, as I find it somewhat annoying.

Thanks in advance.

~Regards RCOG

[Taiji]

I recommend you use my BB minimod and the EDB I have included on the first page.

Due to some cool innovation by me () you will probably never face a pure militia army.

With my excellent new EDB you will have limited access to some more useful units in castles than just peasants () from the start.

Of the 3 factions that interest you the Teutons are the hardest, then KoJ, and then the Seljuk.

But the best piece of advice I can offer is this: Forget your experiences in other mods

[RCOG]

I have already installed your BB and have updated it to its latest version, and Ive indeed seen its considerable effect on the AI battle wise, and frankly, I think battles are going to be much more challenging now, thank you for your hard work in developing BB.

As for your EDB, Ill give it a try, and will see its effects once the campaign will be in progress.

In regards to the Teutons though, In custom battle, it seems the HRE can choose some of the teutonic order's most elite units, if this also applies in the campaign, that does decrease my interest to play as them somewhat.
Are there certain conditions the HRE must fullfill to recruit teutonic elite units?.

Ive been interested the most in the teutonic order since kingdoms vanilla (which really motivated me to learn medieval history, with special emphasis being on the teutons at first), I know Im asking this prematurely, as I havent started my campaign yet, but when does the "Dark Ages" event occurs, and how should I prepare for it?.

What are the diffrences between the historical campaign and the main campaign, which one is easier?.

Lastly, looking at the starting position of the teutonic order, is it a safe assumption to just head eastwards, away from the catholic whirlpool of doom? or is it a matter of time untill Ill have to go back, e.g. excommunicated factions?.

~Regards RCOG.

[Taiji]

I know what you mean about the apparently similar rosters in custom. Don't worry, it's different in the campaign. Playing either should not ruin the other.

Dark ages... Some turns after 1250 plague will hit, and war will erupt. Just make sure you have a ton of money, reasonable armies, at least one family member outside a city(if the whole family dies of plague, game over). And though war will erupt, try to ensure good relations with neighbours that you don't want to fight. Though you are forced into war with them, they might not like it just as much as you, so try not to be antagonistic with old friends. It doesn't last forever, maybe a decade or so at most.

As for starting position, the DLV campaign puts the player in a tough position. But also the way that DLV campaigns will play out for the AI is quite unpredictable. I'd recommend leaving the AI alone for the first 40 turns, just grab rebel stuff. Then decide what to do from there, obviously Lithuania is a tasty target, but so is Poland. So what to do about Acre? It's up to you, but remember that's your heir - he will need to be in your capital shortly after your king dies, to be crowned, or else you are usually in serious danger of rebellion.

[Kjertesvein]

You should always develop your economy for the first 20-40 turns - which the AI will also do. Then, the obvious choice is to fight aggresive battes, develop your kingdom with war and conquest into a vast Empire, reaching into the edges of the continent to achive stability within. In another campaign, you may use cunning politics, economic machine and dissimulating continental diplomacy as your main weapon to hold your kingdom as a dominant influence across the entier continent instead [2]...

Of the 3 factions, I would say KoJ is a very enjoywable faction. Lots of enemys to consider. Diplomacy with the continent will be a big bonus. Unit roster is a contrast to the other regional powers.Your religion is very unique down there. Also remember that big factions like Turkey and HRE has little personality, compared to the smaller factions like KoJ, Norway, Ireland, Armenia, etc.

Teutonic Order is a cool small faction with lots of character (which is the reason why I choose this above HRE), but I sence you will face a defeat which is hard to admit. So for examples: You said "I seem sensible to head east from the begining", well, by that you would get crushed by the poles and the lithuanians in under 12 turns However, it is possible to conwuer the baltic in a later campaign. Also heading west is a bad choice, since you will come face to face with the German Empire (defacto ally). I would stay put and develop or head north if you should choose to play that faction.

Seljuk Turks is a cool faction, but it seems to me as it has little "soul". It's a big faction, and you have atleast 3 conflicts, far away from each other. That mean you have to split your focus on the Greeks, the crusaders and the Georgians to the north. Once you have taken out one of these faction - you will be given a loads of reserves and funding from that peacefull area -- resulting in a confused game in the begining, and boring and easy game in the end.

Historical campaign is what I personally prefere. You start out with a couple of decent developed citys, and the enemy is almost upon your door step in 20 turns. The Imperial campaign is there for balanced play, the citys are smaller buildt and the enemy is behind a wall of rebel lands - making expansion slower (to slow for me, and I belive that is also the case with you). In the end, it's a matter of taste.

The roseter level tier will develop according to your focus to development your citys and your economy to back it up. I would say about 25 for a large faction, and 50 for a smaller faction to reach medium tier troops. It does not come in one boom, but gradually. Keep your eye on your population growth and the requirement of finished bulidigs. Militia wars will be over from 20 - 40 turns, while the high end will not appear for 100 years. Gunpowder after those. As I said, roster availability will come gradually, giving each unit a nice time to be used, before the next one comes along (not all at once, like M2TW Vanilla).

Since this is your first time, then you are doomed to meet the wall at some point. I have heard dusins of people who start, then gets slapped in the face by the rude DLV engine (I enojy it every time). So when you do loose your key citys, then another. Then another, then another.... Then don't loose hope - Stick it out and fight to the bitter end. If you are forced to migrate, then there are a number of diffrent key lands which can be recommended.

~Wille

[TaronQuinn]

I agree with all that has been said here. Your 3 finalists are good choices: KoJ for its unique position and also some interesting mercenaries and other units it has access to, no to mention your priests can pick up piety levels fast converting the neighboring Muslim provinces. Turks are usualy powerful in all my campiagns (never played them) but I always thought their units were bland, and the Muslim factions seem under-represented. As for Teutonic Order, I always have to support them when I play as the HRE, just to have a buffer state with whatever eastern power survives. And they get kicked out the Holy Land by whoever is there, Egypt, KoJ and sometimes even just to rebels. Maybe not a problem for a human player.
As for the Wall, beware the Dark Ages: plagues, marauding hordes, traitorous neighbors and soaring deficits....but to survive it and rebuild afterwards is a cleansing experience, so I wish you good luck!

[Ahlerich]

Ive been busy for quite a while installing this mod + a combination of numerous sub mods, after having decided that this mod is really good, and seems to have a larger variety in units for certain factions than other mods Ive tried, I have been playing several custom battles in the last few days to check the factions rosters and their units etc.

In preparation for a DLV, Ive read a variety of manuals in regards to the campaign scripts.
However, when the time came for me to select a faction, I have narrowed down what factions I would want to play, to the Teutonic Order,The Kingdom of Jerusalem and the Seljuk turks.

The faction I would like to play the most would be the teutonic order, yet it seems they are in a bad position, and if Im not mistaken, I think the HRE can gain access to their elite units, if so, what sort of incentive is left to play as them?.

The Seljuk Turks, well, after seeing their variety of horse archers, foot archers, infantry (Jannisaries all the way) and other units as well, Ive considered playing as them,the only reason Im hesitating, is because the last campaign I finished was in SS as the mongol horde with the same music repeating itself, eventually making me hate the music,
therefore Id like to avoid listening to that music for another entire campaign.

The Kingdom of Jerusalem, well, I always prefer to play as a Catholic faction due to political struggles with the papacy and the crusades, however, their position seems to be bad and I think I wont be able to handle that campaign, seeing as my attempts in playing the KOJ in BC ended up in campaign loses.

Thirdly, lets say that Ive decided which of these factions I should play, now, which campaign should I try, historical or main?, what is easier?, as I would like to have a nice slow paced game without all too many difficulties, I dont want to play as England, Ive done it several times, and would like to not play as them for a long long time.

What faction of these do you recommend in terms of difficulty (medium), should it be main or historical campaign? Advice on your recommended faction would be appreciated, as I havent played m2tw for a long time now, although I still do remember how the game works, for the most part.

Once the campaign is on its way, I simply have to ask this, how long will it take untill I achieve access to the medium/top tier units? because I would not like to have militia wars for 150 turns, as I find it somewhat annoying.

Thanks in advance.

~Regards RCOG

ok my friend let me tell you this

to play a teutonic order campaign on the sugegsted difficulty with all scripts on as a historical campaign is the most frustrating thing you can get into.
i tried many many times and only made it once or twice to the dark ages. it is really hard and this means can only be won by luck or cheating and cheating defeats the purpos of playing this mod (..cheating to me is already like lifting fog of war or looking at the map first and going streight for some settlements) because in the end if you have one militia spearmen and the enemy 2 units of pikemen..amilitary genius does not win this battle either. no way with the tactical option.

therefore i suggest you play a hre campaign to get the hang of the game first. this will be way less frustrating. do it as historical campaign. you start big, have time to fix your good economy and can work on keeping generals loyal (biggest, most tedious challange)

at the darkest at darkage you will to have to fight for survival and have a big ass war to worry about.