Battle AI mod

[Dracula]

And does this mod do for battles ? Does it change the way they will attack as a group or not ?

[Randall Turner]

When you guys find something like this, do one of you drop a note to CA? It might be that something as innocuous as "charge distance" etc. could result in AI behavior hysterisis. (That's where the AI system determines conditions have been met to trigger a specific behavior, then next frame determines conditions trigger another behavior, then back, then forth, etc.) Which can in turn result in very bad macro-behavior, ie, "melee bug" etc.

They might like to hear about it. Just saying.

[Lazy Knight]

I am convinced they know what is going on here.

[husserlTW]

I am convinced they know what is going on here.

I am sure they do, thats why they don't release modding tools!!!

Luntik very good work, +rep! . I tried it this weekend in a few custom battles and with Greek mod in Late Campaign (VH). In both cases I had very interesting combats and the opponents were far more challenging.

[♔Dignan♔]

Just want to give some more feedback. I would say 70% of the time I'm getting good battle mechanics. And that's with CUSTOM battles so that says a lot. I will confirm too that I get this without using the kv packs. So much must rest on the battle_entities changes alone. It's amazing really.

My only compliant, which is a small one, is still that on occasion, the AI will form squares when it isn't necessary. Is there any way to lessen their tendency to do this? It's still much better than the melee/square fest that is vanilla.

The only thing that isn't advisable (and I hate saying this because it should be the point of the game) is doing any kind of different deployment or tactics against the AI that will force them to make turns. The AI still handles best when it is advancing over an open field, in one direction. As soon as they start turning they criss-cross into each other and line up behind one another and all hell will break loose.

Despite these flaws which may only be fixed by the upcoming patch (keep fingers crossed), ...Bravo again on this work.

[Flugelhorn19]

This is fantastic, I just want to add my experience with this mod:

In the custom battles I've gotten some of the mixed results others have reported, and sometimes certain nations (ie: LATE France) seems to like to melee charge in the "old style."

HOWEVER!:

In the campaign, I have noticed a drastic improvement. I just fought a battle between Prussia (me) and the United Provinces (AI) in which they attacked with a small army and relied on a full stack in Amsterdam to reinforce, so the units were coming in one at a time.

The AI used the entire first group to attack my left flank, NEARLY TURNING IT! They then used reinforcement infantry and cavalry to systematically attack my RIGHT FLANK! It was amazing. I was able to defend the flanks (barely) and then the AI funneled their remaining reinforcements into an attack on my center, wiping out most of the battalions I had placed there and killing my general.

The mechanics were still a bit fuzzy, the units didn't always line up squarely to fire, and sometimes they ran around a little, but it was the first time I ever had to move my units around to reinforce sections of the line which had been withered by musket fire alone. It forgot entirely about whether or not the tactics seemed realisic, and just fought for the life of my army. It was a blast, and absolutely HAS to be the kind of battle experience we were expecting from Empire at the start.

I know this is just one instance, but the AI showed a kind of tactical versitility I have never seen before. It was great. I've used darthmod, and some other mixed mods to try and fix it, but this battle was just your AI fix over vanilla (and BSM). I was very impressed.

If you want to have a look I (of course) saved a replay, in case you'd like to analyze it.

-John

[Pdguru]

This is fantastic, I just want to add my experience with this mod:

In the custom battles I've gotten some of the mixed results others have reported, and sometimes certain nations (ie: LATE France) seems to like to melee charge in the "old style."

HOWEVER!:

In the campaign, I have noticed a drastic improvement. I just fought a battle between Prussia (me) and the United Provinces (AI) in which they attacked with a small army and relied on a full stack in Amsterdam to reinforce, so the units were coming in one at a time.

The AI used the entire first group to attack my left flank, NEARLY TURNING IT! They then used reinforcement infantry and cavalry to systematically attack my RIGHT FLANK! It was amazing. I was able to defend the flanks (barely) and then the AI funneled their remaining reinforcements into an attack on my center, wiping out most of the battalions I had placed there and killing my general.

The mechanics were still a bit fuzzy, the units didn't always line up squarely to fire, and sometimes they ran around a little, but it was the first time I ever had to move my units around to reinforce sections of the line which had been withered by musket fire alone. It forgot entirely about whether or not the tactics seemed realisic, and just fought for the life of my army. It was a blast, and absolutely HAS to be the kind of battle experience we were expecting from Empire at the start.

I know this is just one instance, but the AI showed a kind of tactical versitility I have never seen before. It was great. I've used darthmod, and some other mixed mods to try and fix it, but this battle was just your AI fix over vanilla (and BSM). I was very impressed.

If you want to have a look I (of course) saved a replay, in case you'd like to analyze it.

-John

John,

I had the same experience yesterday in a custom battle. For the first time ever the AI beat me using the tactics you described. It was simply the best battle I had expereinced with ETW. Yes, still a bit chaotic but heck, the real thing probably was, too! Now, the custom battle results are erratic, but it's a vast improvement on plain vanilla, and in my opinion preferable than AI changes that might reduce the game to nothing but a predictable firefight.

I am working with the TAR team to find the best way to get the new Darthmod (which incoporates elements of this mod) into that so do check on that when TAR version 2.0 comes out!

[Swiss Halberdier]

@Luntik
Very nice battle AI changes! +rep

I am convinced they know what is going on here.

I am sure they do, thats why they don't release modding tools!!!

I fully agree here and we all can hope that the upcoming major patch will fix several serious AI issues.

[Pdguru]

@Luntik
Very nice battle AI changes! +rep



I fully agree here and we all can hope that the upcoming major patch will fix several serious AI issues.

I agree also. I think the next patch will be a vast improvement, but we probably won't see it until well after Napoleon TW (so CA can avoid folks returning or sticking to ETW and delaying buying NTW). Either way, we win in the long run, eh?

[Graphic]

Awesome! To be honest I played a custom battle and didn't see much difference, but I read what some said about playing it on the campaign map to really see. I fought the British in Pennsylvania as the French and they held a solid line and shot it out the entire fight. When I brought out my Native Warrior Auxiliaries on my flanks they shifted to meet that threat. Unfortunately they still go into squares but at this point it sounds unfixable, they just have to do it when they feel threatened on multiple flanks.

I don't really dig most of the gameplay changes of any of the big mods, so something like this that I can just slap on the vanilla game is a godsend. Good stuff and +rep to Luntik.

[Arayel]

An update on experiences from me as well.

All this is in early Campaign also using APE:TI and AUM.

Forgetting sieges (worst thing in the game for tactics tbh) I have played a few more open battles, especially against the English who have decided they want to own India all of a sudden. In small skirmishes not a lot has changed apart from the fact that you can actually have a shoot-out which is nice. However on big fights (800+ troops per side) there is a marked difference.

First up battle lines are actually formed and marched in. This is just great to watch.

Cavalry is now a pain in the ass on flanks and for feigned routes. The English especially run their cavalry into my flanks, hold me long enough to get their line into range, flee and then come back from the rear once my units are committed to the front. I lost my entire cannon line to this tactic and in the next fight barely stopped it from happening again.

Reinforcements and multi pronged attacks are now a huge advantage for both players and the AI who uses them effectively. I watch in awe as my allies turned up on my flank and proceeded to save my battle line from almost certain annihilation when my left flank crumbled under cavalry assault. I managed to hold the right and the allies then rolled up their line. The enemy made a last ditch charge on my line but to no avail.

Battles are now hugely more fun and the bigger the battle the better for this mod. Which if anything is even more realistic as skirmishes would have been disorganised brawls while large battles were more like chess games.

Keep working lutnik, this can only get better !!!

[Isabelxxx]

Luntik

OK, for a good question you get a good answer

based 1.5
Changes relate only to the European factions.
Never one squad infantry (heavy medium light) behind the other, only in line

may be x or x x or x
-----------x ---------x

neve x
-------x

Interesting, as suggestion, try to do the same with 1.3 (included in DM or JM if you are not able to get it).
1.3 it's supposed to be the best version after many test.

[Luntik]

I saw the difference 1.3 from 1.5, but I did not understand what they are expressed (in that they affect).
Isabelxxx, you can explain than 1.3 better than 1.5?

[Isabelxxx]

Not trying to be annoying, but your expression with English language is a bit **xasd*** XD
1.5 forces units to form squares with major frequency and effectiveness (but this provoke some strange behaviors: squares without cavalry in the map, ...) and the ''melee bug'' is more frequent (without any change, vanilla).
1.3 has not squares (almost nonexistent) but the general behavior of all units is improved.

Then there are other changes in formations added to 1.5 which not affect to AI (or better; bugged behaviors) but battle mechanic, I think these could be implement to 1.5 for having the definitive group formations.

Arayel

Reinforcements and multi pronged attacks are now a huge advantage for both players and the AI who uses them effectively. I watch in awe as my allies turned up on my flank and proceeded to save my battle line from almost certain annihilation when my left flank crumbled under cavalry assault. I managed to hold the right and the allies then rolled up their line. The enemy made a last ditch charge on my line but to no avail.

I have not read all the posts, one by one, but I have seen comments like this which are wrong. There are things already included in vanilla, this is one of those things.

So giving a proper/objective feedback is not the same than giving ''fantastic feedback''.

[♔Dignan♔]

Luntik, do we have any way of lessening the AI's tendency to move when they make contact with another unit? I've done a few more custom battles and am getting "so-so" results again. More like vanilla mess. It could just be a coincidence of a couple of bad battles in a row but I don't know.

I cringe every time I see two AI units about to overlap. Once it starts.....it never stops until they've casually walked into my line. "Frustrating" doesn't even BEGIN to describe my feelings for CA and how they messed up the BAI.

[Luntik]

... I've done a few more custom battles and am getting "so-so" results again...

♔Dignan♔,
maybe before that you do have changed, but then returned all back ?

Now I will make a controversial idea.

From time to time I noticed that the changes do not have a response or after the cancellation of the changes that led to bad results I got the same bad result.

Perhaps you have had a similar situation?

Now, making bit changes, I always changed the name of mod before testing
mymod.pack -> 1mymod.pack -> 2mymod.pack ...

PS
Maybe it (my actions) looks like a cargo cult
PPS
Sorry for my English again

[grandpa]

I just wanted to say that my experience with your Mod, added to the APE/TI, has ran seamlessly, and the results imho have been exceptional. I will bring along a screen shot or two when I come up for air. Thank you for efforts. Great Job!!!

[♔Dignan♔]

To anyone here who has NTW already... have you looked at some of the values in the battle_entities table and other tables to see if there are significant changes from ETW values? If so, maybe changing ETW numbers to match could help the BAI. Just an idea. I don't have NTW yet.

[♔hammeredalways♔]

Hi Dignan that is a good shout, at first glance there battle entity table seems identical to Vanilla ETW - I will continue to dig around for any noticeable differences

[♔Dignan♔]

Hi Dignan that is a good shout, at first glance there battle entity table seems identical to Vanilla ETW - I will continue to dig around for any noticeable differences

I eagerly await your findings.