Friendly Fire.

Am I blind or do i see in every video units fireing into the backs of units and takeing no casualties?? I also hate the Blocky formations, I recall ing about this before empire came out and lusted told me it was just how they presented the game to the public? So is this the reason units are fireing behind other units fireing even when there not on a hill?

I hope it's an option you can turn on/off

Originally Posted by Red_legged_devils

Am I blind or do i see in every video units fireing into the backs of units and takeing no casualties?? I also hate the Blocky formations, I recall ing about this before empire came out and lusted told me it was just how they presented the game to the public? So is this the reason units are fireing behind other units fireing even when there not on a hill?

I have the same bad feelings about that

Originally Posted by T-Duke

I have the same bad feelings about that

i agree...

Well when I played my first NTW battle in munich, around 50% of my casualties were friendly fire.
All done by my cannons, cause the cannons cant shoot over the units, just trough my own regiments all the time. That was a bit annoying

Indeed Hinkel I saw it too, particularly at your Borodino battle. As I told in an other poll here and at our "home", the trafectory of the cannons is too flat.
Some guys denie this, because 5 degrees and so on, I say that it is 15 degrees etc. ...

No matter what is the truth at the end:
This point with the flat trajectory will cause anger on the boards after release, because in ETW it was felt better made and that will cause the anger too. This is sure like an "Amen in the church" in my eyes!

Originally Posted by T-Duke

I have the same bad feelings about that

what bad feelings? its your own decision how to position your troops, if in 3, 4 or 5 ranks is your choice. its also your choice if you want to have a unit of line behind another one and take the risk of friendly fire. I just dont see how we should have bad feelings about something like that because the player isnt forced to do it like it is shown on the pics

Originally Posted by Nicolaos

what bad feelings? its your own decision how to position your troops, if in 3, 4 or 5 ranks is your choice. its also your choice if you want to have a unit of line behind another one and take the risk of friendly fire. I just dont see how we should have bad feelings about something like that because the player isnt forced to do it like it is shown on the pics

I think u miss the point m8 . I do want friendly fire like it simply should be, i don't want to see battaillons firing " through" other ones as you can sadly see in many video previews as well no more 3th or 4th rank firing... for once just a little of logical and realistic warfare would be nice imho...

I can't imagine the game not having friendly fire for rifles.

What's to stop someone from just creating a big column of say 10 regiments, marching up to the enemy and unleashing the firepower of 10 units all at once on 1 regiment. It would be madness.

No one says friendly fire is absent from game, but that just a basic rendition of it is implemented because of the single firing man of the engine who aims by his own making for some unrealistic effects.

I'm worried too, no firing with a friendly unit in front should be the ABC of napoleonic warfare. Never ever battalion in line or open order would have fired with the chance to kill friendly troops . And, to clear it once for all, due to low accuracy of muskets even if the rear unit was on higher level fire was impossible.
What we see instead is line of infantry or tiralleurs firing through skirmishers, line firing above other lines just because of a slight slope elevation.

But this is a game of course, so unless they put an option like "no fire with unit in front" we must cope with this simplification. Even that option would be pretty easy to include: a cicle through front (let's say 100 metres) and if a friendly unit is present then fire would be forbidden.

Regarding cannon elevation angle I cannot speak for game purpose because I haven't had the chance to test the beta as you did Mandelus. What I read on the napoleonic books I own is that direct fire with very low angle was almost always used by guns, unless they were aiming at elevated target but this is another matter of course. What I saw in videos (i.e the Egypt one) is however a curved trajectory with shots going easily above the infantry heads in front of the guns. Pretty much the same as Empire.I hope they have changed system even if someone (or many according to you) will not like the new one.

ANd this not bacause of historical realism, but because in game term a true line of sight requirement makes for more manouvered battles, for more tactical option to the attacker.

Originally Posted by Lord Nova

It would be madness.

No. It would. Be. SPARTA!


(Sorry, couldn't help myself )

Most of the time when you see friendly fire on the videos, it's happening over an incline

Now, there are a few possibilities:

1. No friendly fire, but they put the armies ON hills to make us think there IS friendly fire and they're negating it
2. Friendly fire, but it's negated by the incline (allows those behind to shoot over their friends heads)
3. Friendly fire, but rather than realistic shooting-over-heads, you just get an accuracy bonus on hills, allowing units to snipe over their allies' heads

Well for me realism comes in the first place and it is good to see CA is bringing some improvements to that, but what do you think of grenadiers with grenades do you think they used them during the Napoleonic wars? And why do they come in units of 80 instead of 120 regular line (normal size i guess)?

Originally Posted by Cromagnon2

Well for me realism comes in the first place and it is good to see CA is bringing some improvements to that, but what do you think of grenadiers with grenades do you think they used them during the Napoleonic wars? And why do they come in units of 80 instead of 120 regular line (normal size i guess)?

My facts are fuzzy since I'm basing this all on memory but I believe they didn't use grenades in this time period. Again I could be very wrong on this cause I know the answer for Empire's time period.

I can however tell you why the are 80 men rather then 120, CA doesn't want you using them as line infantry in other words a full stack of nothing but grenadiers and no line. So it would be more effective and cheaper to use line infantry or conscripts for the bulk of a stack (assuming Grenadiers cost more or equal to line infantry).

Grenadiers did not use grenades during this era. They didn't use them during the era of ETW either for that matter. Grenades were almost exclusively used by fortress defenders.

Originally Posted by Lord Nova

My facts are fuzzy since I'm basing this all on memory but I believe they didn't use grenades in this time period. Again I could be very wrong on this cause I know the answer for Empire's time period.

Yes this is also my thought on it, i don't believe it was very common, unless maybe in strong fortified positions?

I can however tell you why the are 80 men rather then 120, CA doesn't want you using them as line infantry in other words a full stack of nothing but grenadiers and no line. So it would be more effective and cheaper to use line infantry or conscripts for the bulk of a stack (assuming Grenadiers cost more or equal to line infantry).

Well i don't see how you can totally replace line infantry by grenadiers in multiplayer if they are more expensive, this would outflank them easily. But my basic question really is if grenadier regiments were generally smaller than regulars?

Yes they were. I think that CA proportion are correct, maybe 90 would be better. But this values are easily moddable.

Originally Posted by Cromagnon2

Well for me realism comes in the first place and it is good to see CA is bringing some improvements to that, but what do you think of grenadiers with grenades do you think they used them during the Napoleonic wars? And why do they come in units of 80 instead of 120 regular line (normal size i guess)?

They didnt', maybe some isolated unit in the russian army during the lst decade of XIII century. Never ever read about grenades in a napoleonic battle, maybe on the turkish front.

In the french army converged grenadiers battalions were assembled for shocking and elite purposes, Oudinot commanded such a division during the glory years until 1807. Before 1808 they had 80-90 men per company compared to the 120 of the line, after the 1808 reform the same amount of men 140.

IIRC in the prussian army of 1806 they had in effect fewer man than the line battalion.

Originally Posted by LEGIO_Desaix

Before 1808 they had 80-90 men per company compared to the 120 of the line, after the 1808 reform the same amount of men 140.

IIRC in the prussian army of 1806 they had in effect fewer man than the line battalion.

Thanks for the info +rep

(edit: Must spread rep before giving it to you again)

Before moding , search for facts ,don`t replace one inacuracie with another!!!!!!!!!!!
http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/Fr...nd_carabiniers