Wargs bad in melee?

**Brave Brave Sir Robin** · February 17, 2010, 08:36 PM

So I'm wondering why my Wargs get ripped apart in melee as Isengard? They rarely seem to attack once their charge has stopped and their defense is pretty small. I would think a wolf-like creature would be more able to dodge attacks than a horse, right? Maybe a few extra points on defense skill or some extra attack to represent the fact that the mount can attack as well.

Otherwise, enjoying the mod so far. Dl'd yesterday and enjoying my Isengard campaign. Unfortunately, engaging the High Elves has been bloody as all their units move quicker than mine and only my Wargs can catch them only to be ripped apart in melee by unarmored Elf archers...

**sirfiggin** · February 17, 2010, 09:52 PM

wargs are more anti-cavalry, as their trait suggests. And remember that the riders are orcs, while the warg's main weapons are it's teeth and claws, which can't compare to a spear and sword. Wargs aren't standard cavalry units

**gluteus maximus aurelius** · February 18, 2010, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by sirfiggin

wargs are more anti-cavalry, as their trait suggests. And remember that the riders are orcs, while the warg's main weapons are it's teeth and claws, which can't compare to a spear and sword. Wargs aren't standard cavalry units

Ant-cavalry they may be but they fall pretty quickly to my green Rohirrim. When I've used them I've found them to be fairly useless in melee, and are best used to hunt down enemies of the Reich!

**trueblaze** · February 17, 2010, 10:17 PM

I found that wargs seemed to be far even less effective in combat ever since they switched them from standard formation to that loose rounded one that they now have. You wouldn't happen to know what line/s I'd need to change to switch their formations back would anyone?

**Ozzmosis** · February 18, 2010, 05:50 AM

Considering that they were giant wolves, and seeing how they are portrayed fighting in the films, wargs ought to be better than most cavalry, and ought to tear up infantry as well. I mean, they were twice the size of a man, and in ROTK, you see gothmog's warg eating like five soldiers.
Also, they should probably get wolfen sounds, Camel noises do not suit them!

**Lordinquisitor** · February 18, 2010, 06:11 AM

So have you seen attacking wargs, lately? Wargs, not their riders?

**Jarnis** · February 18, 2010, 06:28 AM

I too have found the wargs very underwhelming both as anti-cav and as flankers, they serve little purpose other than capturing routing enemies

Against rohan I found that if their cavalry does not break immideately after you hit them with the warg charge the wargs are dead meat, they are too slow to escape and to weak to win the melee.

However Isengaard has other strengths and are well suited to deal with Rohan, OotMM are however not

but I have just about given up on that faction.

**Lordinquisitor** · February 18, 2010, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by Jarnis

I too have found the wargs very underwhelming both as anti-cav and as flankers, they serve little purpose other than capturing routing enemies

I think their most important purpose is binding archers; While in melee they can`t shoot your more important troops.

**Muffer Nl** · February 18, 2010, 06:30 AM

Trolls

**Ozzmosis** · February 18, 2010, 06:33 AM

In Two Towers, yous see Legolas killing wargs one by one, just one arrow each, so i guess, low shield value, high defence skill and high attack are in order

**Lordinquisitor** · February 18, 2010, 06:58 AM

As soon as the wargs and not their riders only attack, yes.

**moimeme** · February 18, 2010, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Ozzmosis

In Two Towers, yous see Legolas killing wargs one by one, just one arrow each, so i guess, low shield value, high defence skill and high attack are in order

come on! Legolas in the movie is simply not a reference(the others too but he is more

) that dude kill a warg with one arrow

, kill a mumakil by himself with is ninja talents

, he also agrip a full speed horse with ease

and do snowboarding with a shield

and all this without missing a single shot or getting out of ammo

....

I's just that I found him annoying

in the movie plus it's this anonying Orlando Bloom

= most annoying

cocktail ever!!

Oh and I forgot to mention that mister can walk over snow!

**Ellin Athinaios** · February 19, 2010, 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by moimeme

Oh and I forgot to mention that mister can walk over snow!

Actually, this was the only lore-accurate moment of those you mentioned about Legolas.

From the LotR, in the snow:

Legolas watched them for a while with a smile upon his lips, and then he turned to the others. 'The strongest must seek a way, say you? But I say, let a ploughman plough, but choose an otter for swimming, and for running light over grass and leaf, or over snow - an Elf.'

With that he sprang forth nimbly, and then Frodo noticed as if for the first time, though he had long known it, that the Elf had no boots, but wore only light shoes, as he always did, and his feet made little imprint in the snow.

'Farewell!' he said to Gandalf. 'I go to find the Sun!' Then swift as a runner over firm sand he shot away, and quickly overtaking the toiling men, with a wave of his hand he passed them, and sped into the distance and vanished round the rocky turn.

**karsten** · February 19, 2010, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by moimeme

come on! Legolas in the movie is simply not a reference(the others too but he is more

) that dude kill a warg with one arrow

, kill a mumakil by himself with is ninja talents

, he also agrip a full speed horse with ease

and do snowboarding with a shield

and all this without missing a single shot or getting out of ammo

....

I's just that I found him annoying

in the movie plus it's this anonying Orlando Bloom

= most annoying

cocktail ever!!

Oh and I forgot to mention that mister can walk over snow!

you got it all correct beside snow walking....

also i hate the films for creating godlike characters... all the people in TLOTR can die if stabbed, and go in war with serious risk for their lives. In the film it's like a giant luna-park

**cormagus77** · February 20, 2010, 04:01 AM

Originally Posted by moimeme

that dude kill a warg with one arrow

Originally Posted by moimeme

Oh and I forgot to mention that mister can walk over snow!

That's what the Elves in Tolkiens Works usually do!!!

The other things, that are clearly exaggerated, you can blame on "Sir Peter Jackson" and the film industry!

However on topic of the melee-underpowered wargs, I rather agree:
- The wargs might be killed easily by an elf with his aiming skills. But I'm not so sure if they if they would fall that easily to enemy attacks.
- per "warg" there's two fighters: The warg and the riding orc; you need to kill both to finish them off! So maybe 2 life-points would be adequate!
- I noticed in my games that they flee rather easily: Maybe one could give them a little extra morale, to make them stand their ground!

- On the other hand, I think that the ferocious and bloodthirsty wargs would sometimes run havoc in battle and even attack their riders. So it would be really hazardous to bring them into close combat!

So overall I think the wargs are a bit underpowered in melee!

**Muffer Nl** · February 18, 2010, 07:29 AM

In Two Towers, yous see Legolas killing wargs one by one, just one arrow each, so i guess, low shield value, high defence skill and high attack are in order

You know that this mod bases stats on the lore, not the movies right?

**Ozzmosis** · February 18, 2010, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Lain

You know that this mod bases stats on the lore, not the movies right?

Does it say anywhere how thick a warg's hide is? does it say how many arrows it takes to bring one down? I mean, the wargs themselves aren't armoured, so a well placed arrow ought to bring it down. The movies are as good a source as any (barring Tolkien's original work). In fact, most of the units are inspired from the film. Especially Gondor and Elven armour.

**Lioncross** · February 18, 2010, 08:30 AM

I think Wargs are meant to stop enemies from flanking the more heavy and powerful Isengard units who move fairly slow and cannot turn in a dime like militia, or at least that's how they act in my campaigns.

**Ahlerich** · February 18, 2010, 08:39 AM

the formation change i like, looks more like a horde. however its true that the stats should be increased to compensate for the bad formation at least

i also think that wargs should be stronger or cheaper and more available or the unit size simply further enlarged. its the only cavalry like unit of isengard and all it can to is bin one cav unit for a bit or stop it from chrging or run down fleeing troops.
u better dont use them at all in battle because if u do they will be gone by the time u hunt the fleeing ones

**Point Blank** · February 18, 2010, 09:32 AM

In RR/RC, Wargs get +2 attack, +2 defense, +4 charge, very_hardy, +1 morale. But these stats are added onto the stats for the riders, which are mostly just poorly-armored orcs. They also have a very large unit size (largest in the game), and the frighten_foot and frighten_mounted attributes, plus being very cheap and replenishing quickly. Just use them as attrition units.