Islam & Education

[Armenum]

How has Islam affected research and education development in Muslim countries? Taking look at middle eastern countries it gives me an impression that such education and research that is present in many secular, western countries is severely lacking in these countries. How much has the religion of Islam really suppressed development? Given the fact that religion consumes the time and effort of people there so much more than in secular countries, this seems to be a major factor. Since so much more value is given in the muslim society to religious achievement more than anything else. Thus that is what people strive for. Islam greatly affects the governments, obviously, thus the governments do not put that much effort in stimulating this growth.

The obvious social backwarness created by Islam is apparent especially regarding the suppression of women, but also the ideals of that society and the religion. Does in fact the Qoran preach violence? Well, the book has been cited often by people commiting terrorist acts and by using a literal interpretation the Qoran can preach violence. But of course, that is also a minority of muslims who do interpret the Qoran like that. How much is this book at fault for keeping a whole region with millions of people suppressed in a variety of aspects of life, including non religious education and free thought? What do muslims think when comparing their closed society with that of the west?

[removeduser_052420]

Well I can't speak for the middle east, but Pakistan's education system lacks due to a shortage of funds, and the fact that the universities often fight amongst each other, over petty issues. Although things are getting better now, I remember a statement issued by the UN saying that Pakistan's educational improvements should be a model for other developing countries.

So no, I don't think Islam has much to do with the lack of decent upper educational institutions in the Islamic world. But as stated earlier, I don't really know much about the situation in the ME.

[ShADoW]

Well I can't speak for the middle east, but Pakistan's education system lacks due to a shortage of funds, and the fact that the universities often fight amongst each other, over petty issues. Although things are getting better now, I remember a statement issued by the UN saying that Pakistan's educational improvements should be a model for other developing countries.

In my country university students protests/fight against the government

[Norge]

often fight amongst each other, over petty issues.

Sounds like a Muslim issue, alright.

[Hax]

The obvious social backwarness created by Islam is apparent especially regarding the suppression of women, but also the ideals of that society and the religion. Does in fact the Qoran preach violence? Well, the book has been cited often by people commiting terrorist acts and by using a literal interpretation the Qoran can preach violence. But of course, that is also a minority of muslims who do interpret the Qoran like that. How much is this book at fault for keeping a whole region with millions of people suppressed in a variety of aspects of life, including non religious education and free thought? What do muslims think when comparing their closed society with that of the west?

Interestingly, the first man ever to speak out against the discrimination of women was a Muslim. Muhammed himself said that women should rather go to school than pray, if they had the choice. When it comes to the position of women within Islam, I don't think it's necessarily more biased than the other great Abrahamic faiths.

Regarding violence, this is largely dependent on the context. In a few thousand years, people could quote "The Lord of the Rings" as a reason to commit evil acts to other beings. The Qu'ran also forbids the killing of human beings (regardless of whether they are Muslim or not) in several locations.

How has Islam affected research and education development in Muslim countries? Taking look at middle eastern countries it gives me an impression that such education and research that is present in many secular, western countries is severely lacking in these countries. How much has the religion of Islam really suppressed development? Given the fact that religion consumes the time and effort of people there so much more than in secular countries, this seems to be a major factor. Since so much more value is given in the muslim society to religious achievement more than anything else. Thus that is what people strive for. Islam greatly affects the governments, obviously, thus the governments do not put that much effort in stimulating this growth.

If we go back a thousand years, we'll notice that education around the Islamic world was advocated and that some Muslim rulers set up educational institutes and universities.

Nowadays, it largely depends on what Muslim country you are visiting. Iran has a pretty good educational system, and many Afghan women actually fled there so they could follow an education. I'm not too sure about Iraq under Saddam Hussein, but I think that it wouldn't have been too bad either. From what I know about Tunisia and Algeria, they have decent universities and are looking mostly for trade opportunities with the West, so there has been a decent amount of interaction between the Islamic Maghrib and the western countries lately (my cousin, who is in her final year of secondary school will probably look to continue her education in France or Germany). I won't mention Afghanistan and Pakistan for obvious reasons, I think, but I don't think that education in the Middle East is that bad, if a bit one-sided (to our eyes), perhaps.

[boofhead]

Well, medieval Islam was a centre of science and knowledge, and believe it or not, open-mindedness. I've seen poems written by Arabs a thousand years ago that attacked Islam, and yet these people had a voice, then.

What the hell happened?

Can we blame a book? I think not. Books are written for men by men, and interpreted and acted upon by men. The book is not to blame.

I'd say it's the insular, patriarchal, stubborn, pig-headed, misogynistic, green with envy Arab culture that is to blame. And I'm not talking about Islam there, I'm talking about it's pre-Islamic roots.

There are educated, intelligent, decent muslims the world over. It's always when it gets back to this cultural shite that the barbarities occur.

Arab patriarchal culture needs a symbolic beheading. Thing is they're so slimy nobody will ever find the head.

[morda8]

Well, medieval Islam was a centre of science and knowledge, and believe it or not, open-mindedness. I've seen poems written by Arabs a thousand years ago that attacked Islam, and yet these people had a voice, then.
.

actually muhamad ordered assassinations against arabs that wrote poems against him and his new "faith"

[boofhead]

actually muhamad ordered assassinations against arabs that wrote poems against him and his new "faith"

Yes, indeed he did. Even a woman lying in bed. But I'm talking about poets some centuries after his death. Arabs, great linguists, who expressed their disfavour for Islam.

[morda8]

Yes, indeed he did. Even a woman lying in bed. But I'm talking about poets some centuries after his death. Arabs, great linguists, who expressed their disfavour for Islam.

im pretty sure most of those poets were jewish-arabs and im sure they only critisised islam lightly where they were able to get away with it easily

[removeduser_052420]

im pretty sure most of those poets were jewish-arabs and im sure they only critisised islam lightly where they were able to get away with it easily

What the are you talking about? Go learn some history before criticizing stuff you don't even know about.

Did you hear about the Jewish woman who dumped a bucket of feces on Muhammad evertime he walked by her house, but in return Muhammad did nothing, and that when the woman got sick, Muhammad came to her house and prayed for her?

And trust me, I'm no Islamist. But at least gain some decent knowledge before you go around talking about "jewish-arabs", lulz.

In my country university students protests/fight against the government

Haha. But bangladesh has a few decent universities, according to my bengali friends.

[Yosemite]

actually muhamad ordered assassinations against arabs that wrote poems against him and his new "faith"

excuse me what are you talking about

[ShADoW]

Only 2 that i know off

[boofhead]

Did you hear about the Jewish woman who dumped a bucket of feces on Muhammad evertime he walked by her house, but in return Muhammad did nothing, and that when the woman got sick, Muhammad came to her house and prayed for her?

So believable. A woman dumping on someone's head.

Let me guess, a hadith?

[boofhead]

Did you hear about the Jewish woman who dumped a bucket of feces on Muhammad evertime he walked by her house, but in return Muhammad did nothing, and that when the woman got sick, Muhammad came to her house and prayed for her?

Nope. Never heard about her.

Please show me the hadith and all such references to confirm it.

I'm waiting.

[jankren]

Tell me one religion which doesnt impede development.

Religiously conservative society and backwardness go hand in hand.

Europe started to pick up rapid progress only after they realized that Christianity was full of crap.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Religiously conservative society and backwardness go hand in hand.

Religion is the mother of science. In the Middle Ages, the only "Science" in Europe was conducted by priests and other men of the Church, and only later the figure of the humanist divorced from religion appeared.

Europe started to pick up rapid progress only after they realized that Christianity was full of crap.

Not really. Did you know that two of the greatest Western scientists, Newton and Leibniz, were also devotedly religious?

The idea that religion was divorced from "true" scientific understanding was mainly propagated since the Enlightenment as nothing better than a propaganda ploy.

[Scorch]

Religion is the mother of science. In the Middle Ages, the only "Science" in Europe was conducted by priests and other men of the Church, and only later the figure of the humanist divorced from religion appeared.

This is highly incorrect.

Not really. Did you know that two of the greatest Western scientists, Newton and Leibniz, were also devotedly religious?

Your point being? That just means they were scientists that happened to be religious. Religion did not drive their research anymore than their love of fruit did. It was an ideology they happened to share.

The idea that religion was divorced from "true" scientific understanding was mainly propagated since the Enlightenment as nothing better than a propaganda ploy.

By who? Against whom? Sources, names, etc. Otherwise you're incorrect.

[jankren]

Religion is the mother of science.

Some guy walking on water is so scientific.

Not really. Did you know that two of the greatest Western scientists, Newton and Leibniz, were also devotedly religious?

Everyone has a different personal belief, but I said the general religiously conservative SOCIETY and backwardness go hand in hand.

The idea that religion was divorced from "true" scientific understanding was mainly propagated since the Enlightenment as nothing better than a propaganda ploy.

Religion and science cannot belong in the same sentence.

One teaches that it takes 5000 leaves of bread to feed 5000 people while the other teaches it takes only 1 leaf of bread to feed 5000 people.

[Strelok]

Religion is the mother of science. In the Middle Ages, the only "Science" in Europe was conducted by priests and other men of the Church, and only later the figure of the humanist divorced from religion appeared.

That's an example of the middle ages, but I wouldn't necessarily say that makes it the MOTHER of science.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

That's still just the middle ages and wouldn't make it the MOTHER of science.

Right, "just the middle ages". When you look at the amount of contributions laid by Medieval science beyond the immense and laborious work of the preservation and Literature amidst a world where few if nobody cared, then it certainly doesn't get as small as you try to make it.

In fact, I'll go further and state that the Middle Ages invented Modern Science. To back all my statements, I point to this literature:

http://www.amazon.com/Beginnings-Wes.../dp/0226482316
http://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Ach.../dp/0812210573
http://www.amazon.com/Foundations-Mo.../dp/0521567629
http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Machi.../dp/0140045147

Etc... Etc...