n00b guide?

[cocamido]

hi there,
i've been reading in the twcenter forums, since the first day of ETW, but i didn't find some sort of a noob guide for multiplayer battles... so this is my first post

first up, i've been playing a lot of ETW in the Single Player GC, tried out different mods (DM, IS, etc.) and play the TW series since MTW (only single player). Also, i've got a lot of Experience in other RTS multiplayer games (especially SC bw) so i think the basic principles of how the game works are there....

Yesterday i decided to play ETW online for the first time and i gotta say, it's a whole lot of fun to me *g* suddenly the battles really feel like battles and not like shooting a bunch of chicken-dancing-runningRoundInCircles-melee-bugging AI pals.

My question now is, if there is any sort of a noob guide out there, to help people like myself to get into the game? In which you can find standard Builds and standard tactics for and against most of the countries?

For now I dont really have a clue how to build up my army... i tend to go somehow like:

1gen
2lancers
2kuras.
2mortars (which do you prefer? mortars or howitzers? and why?)
4rifles
rest line inf

Do you have any suggestions concerning the buildup of my army?

I have no particular country which i play, but i tend to either playing france or prussia. should i play another country, cause maybe there is one which is easier to play for a noob?

Yesterday i played against a marathan player, as i am a total noob, i went with my standard army placed the rifes in front of the line, cav on the flanks and mortars in the back..... Well, i prepared for a long firefight as usual, but then he just crashed through my thin line with all his melee-elephant-lancercav-whatever and i was like "wtf? melee-bug-ha?" ... so far so good, after reading a lot in the multiplayer section of the TWC Forum i found out, that it is a quite normal tactic for marathas....

So how do you counter marathas/natives? Perhaps less rifles, more Guard units, instead of the mortars artillery in between the line, to get some canisters off, while the marathas are storming towards your line? less cav? i found the kurass. pretty useless against the superior marath. melee units.

Should you be forming squares in your line, when the marathas attack?


so far so good, sorry for the length of the post, but as i am a total noob, i've got so many questions, which i hope to get answered



Thanks in advance :-)

cocamido a total noob *g*

[TheAussieDigger]

here is something i wrote a couple of weeks ago for some reaosn when i was bored
it doesnt so much give tips as to what the exact builds are. but it does explain strengths and weaknesses well:

US:
Strengths: Marines have fastest fire of any inf unit, legions are very versatile, very cheap pioneer meatshield units, rifles which can walk hidden, Minutemen which have volley fire, many unique and powerful units from America DLC: Powerful guard unit (1st Maryland), very accurate rifleman (Morgan's Rifles), good lancers (Pulaski's Legion), more stable Light Dragoons (2nd Continental Dragoons)
Weaknesses: Very poor variety of cavalry; no light cav, no elite heavy cav

GB:
Strengths: Line Infantry have increased melee, morale and reload stats, Ferguson rifles fire 3-4 times faster than other riflemen, many unique units from America DLC, many choices of guards
Weaknesses: No light cav

Spain:
Strengths: equal best infantry unit in the game (Walloon Guard), SF guerillas which can walk hidden, all light infantry is resistant to heat fatigue
Weaknesses: heavy cav isnt the best, no light cav

France:
Strengths: line infantry have increased melee stats, have by far the best inf unit in early period (Infanterie Petit-Veux), have equal best unit in late period (Swiss Guard), vast choice of guards, Bulkelys Regiment is best unit with rank fire, incredibly powerful guard foot and horse artillery
Weaknesses: no light cav, no Light Dragoons (overpowered in MP after patch 1.4), heavy cav is only average

Prussia:
Strengths: Best cavalry in the game; best light cav (2nd hussars, deaths head hussars), best lancers (bosniaks), very good heavy cav (Garde du Corps), Line Infantry have increased, morale and reload stats, Superior Line Infantry are very good sub-guards, Frei-Korps are very versatile
Weaknesses: u tell me

United Provinces:
Strengths: Overall the best infantry in the game; incredibly good and cheap sub-guards (Swiss infantry, Scots), equal best inf unit in the game (Blue Guard)
Weaknesses: Cavalry lacks a little versatility but still has everything u need

Sweden:
Strengths: Enlarged cavalry sizes; Regiment of Horse, Heavy Cavalry, Light Dragoons. good light infantry (hakkepeliita), Superior Line Infantry are very good sub-guards (same as Prussia's)
Weaknesses: Not mch versatility across the board

Russia:
Strengths: Line Infantry have best melee stats, eqaul best inf unit in the game (Siemenovski Foot Guards), Hand Mortar Company have far improved range for grenades and very useful, elite grenadiers, elite militia , best cavalry in the game along with Prussia; best heavy cav (Garde a Cheval), good light cav (Cossack Ataman cavalry), great versatility
Weaknesses: Line Infantry have decreased accuracy stats

Poland-Lithuania:
Strengths: Best grenadiers in the game (Guard Grenadiers), Winged Hussars are best heavy lancers in the game
Weaknesses: lack of strengths is the main one. this is the most neglected faction of elite units. Polands Household Cavalry is better than melee than the Winged Hussars and grenadiers in numbers are only useful in a few situations

Austria:
Strengths: Superman historically inaccurate unit (Windbusche Jagers) - can fire while hidden, fire 5 times faster than other riflemen, can walk while hidden but slightly decreased men per unit, Grenzers have two barrels so fire 2 shots for every reload and are incredibly cheap at only 550, elite grenadiers (Hungarian Grenadiers), good light cav (Hungarian Hussars), Line Infantry have increased men per unit
Weaknesses: despite the increased size, Line Infantry are still the worst in the game with decreased melee, morale, reload and accuracy. no elite heavy cav.

Ottomans:
Strengths: Nizam-i Cedit Infantry are very good and cheap sub-guards, Hand Mortars have large range for grenades and are very effective, Rifles have largely increased morale and melee stats, good light cav (Mamelukes)
Weaknesses: Beylik Janissaries dont have rank-fire, only heavy lancers (Sipahis) instead of heavy cav, no light dragoons

Maratha Confederacy:
Strengths: great melee infantry (Sikh Warriors), Sikh muskets have very good accuracy and melee stats, ELEPHANTS! - incredible in melee, great morale effects, can have larger armies due to cheap prices
Weaknesses: no long ranged units, no rank-fire for infantry, elephants are conducive to friendly fire and are very large targets for cannonballs and bullets, no Light Dragoons, no heavy cav but only heavy lancers (Sipahis)

Native Americans:
Strengths: melee infantry can throw tomahawks, melee infantry are incredible, many types of ranged cav, Musketman have 90 range, most units can move hidden,
Weaknesses: no rifles, all cav will be beaten by heavy cav of equal numbers, musketman have terrible morale, very susceptible to a mass rout

this was before the Elite units of the east DLC and its too late to bother editing it

[daniu]

First of all, hi and welcome to the forum

My question now is, if there is any sort of a noob guide out there, to help people like myself to get into the game? In which you can find standard Builds and standard tactics for and against most of the countries?

For now I dont really have a clue how to build up my army... i tend to go somehow like:
[...]

I'm afraid a real "noob guide" isn't really possible for MP; where to start?
Everyone has a different style of playing, so I guess you have to find your own by experimenting.
That army setup of yours sounds perfectly reasonable, although I personally never take mortars.
Howitzers are much more precise and you can take them with you so no need to leave a guard contingent behind.
If you use it as a base and vary it a bit on every corner, you'll find out what suits you best.
You may want to skip artillery in the beginning because that takes a lot of micro, but if you feel confident enough from your GC experience, try it out.

Save replays of your battles and watch them so you can find out what you did wrong/what trick of your opponent worked.
Also, you may want to look at some of the commented battles that are available on youtube; Synoptic's channel is the best for ETW IMHO (sadly, he just posted his last ETW vid, but the old ones are also definitely worth watching).

I have no particular country which i play, but i tend to either playing france or prussia. should i play another country, cause maybe there is one which is easier to play for a noob?

I wouldn't recommend Russia for beginners, France and Prussia are fine.

"wtf? melee-bug-ha?" ... so far so good, after reading a lot in the multiplayer section of the TWC Forum i found out, that it is a quite normal tactic for marathas....
So how do you counter marathas/natives? Perhaps less rifles, more Guard units, instead of the mortars artillery in between the line, to get some canisters off, while the marathas are storming towards your line? less cav? i found the kurass. pretty useless against the superior marath. melee units.

Should you be forming squares in your line, when the marathas attack?

Yes, the Marathas have some neat melee troops that they tend to use .
I personally find artillery to be a double-edged sword against them, since they can get overrun; on the other hand, elephants make nice artillery targets. Having guards is not a bad idea, they have high melee and morale and inspire nearby troops.
One of the weaknesses the Marathas have is their morale, they're very susceptible to mass routs, so if you get a nice flank attack going, you may be able to fold their army from there...

Hope I helped a bit... but I can write all I want; just play, experience is the best teacher

[aletoledo]

I agree with daniu that watching replays, whether yours or Synoptics youtube videos, is what any noob should be doing. I love to watch them myself for tips and tricks, so this isn't just for noobs. If you enjoy the game and tactics involved, then watching how other people play is really a given. There are a bunch of replays in the sticky section, I think the older replays should still work, but assuming they don't, there are likely still some new ones there as well. Youtube is filled with video commentary (especially Synoptic), the only thing is that you don't get the free roaming capability as you do with a replay.

As for your specific questions about your build and fighting against melee opponents, I think you should save a replay to offer us as an example of your playing style. We can then see what you may or may not be doing wrong. Forming square is a common strategy and it does seem to help. The real key though is to have a second line behind your squares that will fire into the mass of melee soldiers. If your angles are wrong, then you end up firing into your own men, but if you can line it up well, then your square should hold long enough for the second line to kill the melee off.

[dmcheatw]

you're best bet other than watching replays is to join a clan, then they will tell you all the intracacies. for instance, always used a heavy infantry unit (line or guards) as your general, never cavalry.

if you're targeting with artillery, click on high ground in the backgrounmd to adjust the shot upwards

if you have more than one artillery piece and you group them together and then double kick, you can make them run.

if you have the fastest units in the end game, you'll never "lose" a game (but you won't make any friend either hahaha).

there's a million of these little pointers one would need to know if they were going to be really great at the game. and the game changes every 1-3 months because new units get release or stats get tweaked. these days when i get back online i never hesitate to ask the really good players like hekko or scipio or valk what the latest trends are and what tactics i need to look out for/what units don't work like they used to.

a more genreal tip is once you've mastered the basics, always play agressively. this makes the opponent predictable because they will find themselves responding only to your troop movements and attacks, with no time to advance their own plans. you get inside their decision making loop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop), then u rape them mercilessly.

[cocamido]

thanks to all for the tips... after watching a few comment vids and playing a lot today it's getting better and as you said, i'm getting closer to find a unique playstile... so i'll just go ahead with mass gaming and will watch some replays :-)

[Soveriegn]

Seeing as mortars are going to get banned as fixed art 99% bring on the howitzers-and always target ground in front of enemy unit you wish to kill

[TheAussieDigger]

you're best bet other than watching replays is to join a clan, then they will tell you all the intracacies. for instance, always used a heavy infantry unit (line or guards) as your general, never cavalry.

only if u dont use a bodyguard

Seeing as mortars are going to get banned as fixed art 99% bring on the howitzers-and always target ground in front of enemy unit you wish to kill

only when using quicklime

[Soveriegn]

only when using quicklime

incorrect my fine fellow- I have found it very useful to target in front of enemy unit while using percussive shot as well, and due to the inaccuracy of the shell-1 or 2 shots will arc over the targeted ground, and take 20-40 men in the units behind the targeted ground. It makes howitzers very deadly with either ammo. A trick of the trade you might say. I have gotten slaughtered by clan members using this tactic-now I just do it better than they do.

[cocamido]

thanks again for the tips :-)

from my GC experience i already know a bit about aiming with artillery... in my opinion it is best to aim straight in between the lines when using percussive shell for example between two line units or between the rifles and the line inf etc...... but that's just what i experienced in Darthmod, which might differ from vanilla....

For now i like to skip both of them mortars and howitzers and instead go with the 6lb horse art which i find much easier to play, because of the accuracy, range and mobility, or no art at all. And i rather go with LD instead of the Lancers now, because prussian uhlans suck, the LD have 60men, can shoot and can be used as a meat shield for heavy cav. What do you think about the changes in my setup?

I'm now using 4LDs and 2Kurass. (most of the time 2LD+1K on each flank). perhaps i should try 2LD+2Hus+2Kur.

Where do you think you should aim with the horse art? when using shrapnel or grape in front of the unit? when using round shot behind the unit? when do you use round shot, only for range or perhaps for shooting at cavalry units?

Is there any way to handle the "one-or-two-pieces-of-the-art-regiment-wont-shoot" kind of things?


ah and is there any kind of a surrender button, so you dont have to wait until the rest of your army is slaughtered when you already know you lost a game?

and can someone tell me if there is a TW chat in steam which is frequently used, where you can find some opponents etc. so you dont have to play public games all the time and perhaps play a best of series with one guy? I joined the TWcenter Steam group, but the groupchat is empty most of the time....


thanks again to all for helping me out :-)

[TheAussieDigger]

ive found percussive too inaccurate to properly manual-aim
i spose ill have to experiment a bit more

[daniu]

Where do you think you should aim with the horse art? when using shrapnel or grape in front of the unit? when using round shot behind the unit? when do you use round shot, only for range or perhaps for shooting at cavalry units?

I must say, after trying manually aiming at ground for some time, I found the disadvantages outweigh the advantages most of the time (i.e., I mostly target units now); IMHO, I lose more kills because a target unit moved out of my manual aim area than I do because the shots don't hit optimally. Now, I just try to flank to minimize
Round shot, I only use when for range. Shrapnel has the same effect before the shell bursts, a better one after.

Is there any way to handle the "one-or-two-pieces-of-the-art-regiment-wont-shoot" kind of things?

That only happens when you shoot to the side, doesn't it?

ah and is there any kind of a surrender button, so you dont have to wait until the rest of your army is slaughtered when you already know you lost a game?

Sadly, not really; quite the oversight on CA's part.
All you can do is "Quit Battle" which ends the game rather suddenly and is disliked by most... if you're the host, other players are thrown to the menu without even getting to see stats and the save replay option.

[aletoledo]

I'm now using 4LDs and 2Kurass. (most of the time 2LD+1K on each flank). perhaps i should try 2LD+2Hus+2Kur.

now you're playing like an old hand. That's a common and fairly versatile build.

Where do you think you should aim with the horse art? when using shrapnel or grape in front of the unit? when using round shot behind the unit? when do you use round shot, only for range or perhaps for shooting at cavalry units?

I almost always aim in front. If it's shrapnel shot, then it spreads out, if it's roundshot, then it bounces into the target. Bouncing roundshot is a lot of fun IMO and almost an art form. If you aim too close, the bounce goes over the enemies head, so you have to closely watch the pattern of the bounce and adjust your aim.

Is there any way to handle the "one-or-two-pieces-of-the-art-regiment-wont-shoot" kind of things?

That happens typically because the other pieces are in the way. If you have been engaged and your horses have fleed, then they might not have enough men to fire the piece. If you think you have enough men (typically two), yet they're still not all firing (straight ahead), then disjoin them from the pieces (using melee attack) and then rejoin them back up. This helps me sometimes.

ah and is there any kind of a surrender button, so you dont have to wait until the rest of your army is slaughtered when you already know you lost a game?

As daniu mentioned, the surrender doesn't work and if you're the host, it screws everyone else over to simply quit. The non-host will have to quit the battle for the results screen to display. One caveat, if you quit a team game early, then you won't see your scores either. Therefore if you die early, you have to sit and wait for everyone else to finish to see your score.

I must say, after trying manually aiming at ground for some time, I found the disadvantages outweigh the advantages most of the time (i.e., I mostly target units now); IMHO, I lose more kills because a target unit moved out of my manual aim area than I do because the shots don't hit optimally. Now, I just try to flank to minimize

I agree, it's not worth manually targets howitzers. Quicklime is so accurate that it's a fire and forget weapon. I will however manually target cannon, because it always seems to target the end of a line rather than the middle.

[dmcheatw]

only if u dont use a bodyguard

why is a bodyguard unit bad but another horse unit okay?

my reasons for keeping a general in the line is that 1) he is always near the other heavy infantry and the skirms, boosting their morales. 2) the cohesion of the line gives him some added protection. 3) it makes it harder for the opponent to identify who the general actually is. 4) a general in a heavy infantry unit is less likely to die than in any other type of unit, i don't know what it is, but they die at half the rate they would if it was an arty piece, cavalry, or a skirm, even if the line infantry gets pounded, it tends to route wioth the general still alive.

[daniu]

why is a bodyguard unit bad but another horse unit okay?

I think what he means is: it's not recommendable to put your general into a cavalry unit except a general's bodyguard unit, which is ok.

[The Spaniard]

hi there,
i've been reading in the twcenter forums, since the first day of ETW, but i didn't find some sort of a noob guide for multiplayer battles... so this is my first post

first up, i've been playing a lot of ETW in the Single Player GC, tried out different mods (DM, IS, etc.) and play the TW series since MTW (only single player). Also, i've got a lot of Experience in other RTS multiplayer games (especially SC bw) so i think the basic principles of how the game works are there....

Yesterday i decided to play ETW online for the first time and i gotta say, it's a whole lot of fun to me *g* suddenly the battles really feel like battles and not like shooting a bunch of chicken-dancing-runningRoundInCircles-melee-bugging AI pals.

My question now is, if there is any sort of a noob guide out there, to help people like myself to get into the game? In which you can find standard Builds and standard tactics for and against most of the countries?

I have the same problem as you. I've played around +30 matches of online and only won 3 or so of them. Its just a matter of practice and finding your play style, and only recently have I finally come to a consensus on my own. If you really want to be a good online player just keep playing and don't give up.

[cocamido]

after a full day of mortar-spamming, natives-walking-around-half-an-hour-hidden cheese, i think i really hate empire^^, no it's fine and i'm getting better :-) making use of your advices....

once again, is there any empire chat-lobby-channel-whatever-thing? In which you can find some guys to play and perhaps talk about the games etc. because i'm getting tired of playing 80% of my games against some cheesy crap builds (mortar spamming, mass puckle^^ etc.)

thanks again :-)

[aletoledo]

once again, is there any empire chat-lobby-channel-whatever-thing? In which you can find some guys to play and perhaps talk about the games etc. because i'm getting tired of playing 80% of my games against some cheesy crap builds (mortar spamming, mass puckle^^ etc.)

Simple answer is no. That's why we're on this forum, to talk about the game. You'll see us around and you can friend us and then see when we're on-line.

[cocamido]

that's sad, because i think this would bring a big boost to the community.... CA please give us ingame chatchannels!!!!!! *g* just like every and i mean every other multiplayer RTS has....

If you look at the blizzard games (SC BW / WC3) for example, which are the most succesful RTS Games out there, you'll notice that a big part of their success depends on the community friendly battle.net
Sadly a few game developers still dont know how important an easy accesable multiplayer part of a game is...

In ETW if you just bought the game and dont know about TWcenter or similar sites you are completely screwed because you dont know nothing about the game and dont know where to ask... so you need to google, to find TWcenter and start posting here... That's not what I call community friendly or easy accesible.
So in my oppinion an ingame chatlobby is a must! Hopefully CA will bring one up with NTW....

Enough of that
Since there is no noob guide and i'm currently going through noob times, making many avoidable mistakes i just right down a few thinks which I experienced the last days... in case other beginners are reading in this thread, so I might help them a little bit.... and from the last days of multiplaying i know that there are a lot of us out there

1. Don't use Lancers unless your good at microing them, because they are only good at charging and do suck pretty hard in melee after that, especially against other cav.

2. Dont use artillery unless you know what to do with it... makes no sense placing four howitzers and keeping them out of range most of the game (i've found a lot of people using too much artillery which they cannot control).... I for example dont use artillery or only use one reg. of horse art., since i think i'm not good enough to control them and i do better without it....

3. DONT PANIC, when you're facing an enemy with superior artillery... they normally dont do as much damage as it looks like, especially against skirmishers....

4. Dont be afraid to shoot it out with your skirmishers against artillery...

5. Watch after your line units after forming squares.. it is extremely important to form a line again after the attack has been anticipated... otherwise you'll get shot too pieces by the enemy line... I find a lot of people who form squares when i move my cav. next to them and then just seem to forget about it... which is of course exactly what i want, cause now there is no need for a cav charge anylonger as my line easily deals with the squared units

6. dont "panic-square"... before forming a square, look who is charging you and what he's charging at... for example when moving towards skirmishers with a full guard unit and you find 40LDs charging your guards, there's no need for square, as the LD charge is obviously just fake to slow your units down while chasing the skirmishers, if it's not fake, who cares? as your guards will easily rout the LDs.... If you form the square, the LDs stop, shoot at you, then the skirm. had time to reload and again will shoot at you..... i think it's better to just stop and fire a volley in the direction of the dragoons... that wont cost you that much time and will do a good amount of damage

7. dont be too lazy to move your whole army... "geeh he's flanking me .... bah dont want to move my whole army in a different direction... that sucks... i rather get raped..."

8. never move your skirmishers too far away from your line, or you'll run the risk of being cav-charged...

9. OMG I luv Freikorps always use freikorps, freikorps rock so hard, freikorps have so much shooting power, you can shoot everything you want with freikorps^^ +they have kewl melee stats +they look awesome +90men skirmishers ROCK!^^



That's just what I experienced in my first days of multiplaying ETW, either by making the mistake myself or watching other people do it.... Of course all those mistakes are obvious, but i think for total beginners like myself it's good to remind of them.....
of course if someone has a different oppinion on one of the points bring it up... as you're propably way more experienced than i am...

Hope i could help somebody....

Ahhh i got a question to the use of freikorps at the moment i usually play with two units of them additionaly to the 4 jagers.... normally i use them as a flanking force, which works pretty well to me at the moment.... But most of the time, when the opponent realizes "wtf, damn it's freikorps^^ they're raping my flank pretty hard"" he sends all of his cav. to a big cav. charge against them..... most of the time i'm able to hold it off with my cav. and the good melee stats of the korps

but i just wanted to know if anyone has an idea of how to protect the units better against cav charges? I mean since the enemy in 80% of my battles charges them it would be cool to have a way to turn this charge into my favour... i thought about keeping a unit of militia behind them... to absorb the charge... so the korps got time to move back and the militia could propably hold it off until my cav arrives.... or do you think the militia will breakl too soon against a massive charge...
Of course i could place three lines behind them... but then he propably wouldnt charge any longer and my main line would be to weak....

[Spectre11B]

Since there is no noob guide and i'm currently going through noob times, making many avoidable mistakes i just right down a few thinks which I experienced the last days... in case other beginners are reading in this thread, so I might help them a little bit.... and from the last days of multiplaying i know that there are a lot of us out there

....

Everything you said was pretty dead on. These are common mistakes that I see newer players make.