are 2handers any good?

[sabaku_no_gaara]

I remember that back in the early days of M2TW 2handers where verry effective, 4 units of forlorn hope cutting up a 3/4 stack of egyptians etc....

Then the shield bug was fixed and two handers became a lot weaker, appparently due to their animation being so slow they are allmost useless (according to various posters on these forums)

So I was wondering, has anything been done to make the zweihanders/forlorn hope / 2handed weapon wielding units more effective?

If not, what would be the best way to make them effective?

[DeMolay]

In my humble experience in RR:RC : Yes , they are valuable , but better use them as flankers , i try to not build armies around them and don't really trust them to hold central front lines (i use 2-3 max in a full stack ) but when they charge the flanks they are great , also as you said , it's better to use troops with faster animations when defending walls IMHO .

[meese]

As DeMolay said, they're better on the charge. Two-handers with armour piercing are also great in melee against cavalry (but don't let them take the charge). Swords I prefer to charge the backs of lightly armoured men like pikemen which don't die quickly from the front.

[Deadly Rabbit]

Yep, as above, only use them as they're intended; to hit other units in the flank. You're better off with another unit of cheap spears if you're just defending a settlement.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

Thought so, in unpatched vanilla M2TW I once charged an Egyptian wooden fort (built on the march) it had trebuchets, a general, and huge load of militia and my 4 forlorn hope units cut them all to pieces!

Also on the wall Forlorn hope where verry usefull.

I miss the shield bug days

Once pike and zweihander units come into play I no longer use older units like mail wearing spear and shield militia, it looks ugly

[Point Blank]

2H units are shock units (mostly) that kill quickly but also die more quickly, so they hope to break their enemy's morale before being bogged down in melee. They are also unsuitable for holding a line versus most cavalry charges (unless pike or polearm units of course). Late era 2H units with polearms are generally more all-purpose than early-era units, and because they are typically heavily-armored are quite a lot more durable. 2H units are certainly more common in late era, where their high attacks are needed vs opponents heavy armor and cavalry.

[JorisofHolland]

I often use them to finish enemy cavalry. After my spears absorbed the charge, I move some of those guys in and the cavalry simply dies.

[Kawee]

It's not just cavalry, but pretty much anything with thick armour. In the late era, everyone's got these big shiny armour on them.

Having said that, I think you need to pull of a pretty good charge with these guys. We all know infantry have a problem with charging, and with these guys, I find, a bad charge can mean a total waste of a unit.

[Silhouette]

Their usefulness is also heavily reliant upon your own cavalry superiority too, so you can support your flank. I generally don't use them, in lieu of the more professional Pike/Shot formation of the late era. I've found they are more trouble than they're worth, and many of them take multiple turns to recruit (4 for zwei-hander.) I suppose they can be useful against levied troops, undisciplined or feudal troops with low morale, but I haven't found that to be the case.