Getting beseiged

[temaire]

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forums and to the Third Age mod. So far I'm really enjoying it. I do have a question though. Why is it that when you get beseiged by an enemy, they wait for you to get out of the city walls and attack them? Why don't they come with their rams and ladders to get past the city walls?

[athanaric]

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forums and to the Third Age mod. So far I'm really enjoying it. I do have a question though. Why is it that when you get beseiged by an enemy, they wait for you to get out of the city walls and attack them? Why don't they come with their rams and ladders to get past the city walls?

There is a simple solution to that: install the RC/RR submod. The attackers will come to you faster than you may wish (as I found out the hard way).

[temaire]

There is a simple solution to that: install the RC/RR submod. The attackers will come to you faster than you may wish (as I found out the hard way).

Are there any other submods you recommend I download?

[Kawee]

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forums and to the Third Age mod. So far I'm really enjoying it. I do have a question though. Why is it that when you get beseiged by an enemy, they wait for you to get out of the city walls and attack them? Why don't they come with their rams and ladders to get past the city walls?

Actually, that sounds a lot like you sallied out to attack them.

By coming out of town to attack them, you become the attacker, so the AI moves into a defensive position. If you want to defend a siege, you need to wait until the AI launch the assault on the campaign map.

[temaire]

Actually, that sounds a lot like you sallied out to attack them.

By coming out of town to attack them, you become the attacker, so the AI moves into a defensive position. If you want to defend a siege, you need to wait until the AI launch the assault on the campaign map.

But that's exactly what I'm talking about. When they assault a city of mine, they don't do anything. They just stand on the field waiting for me to make the first move. I did download the submod that was suggested above though. I'll see if that fixes the problem.

[Muffer Nl]

No you have to wait until the AI attacks you. When the AI besieges you they do not attack right away. If you choose to take your army and attack the AI that is camping outside your walls the AI will take up a defensive position and wait for you to attack.

[temaire]

No you have to wait until the AI attacks you. When the AI besieges you they do not attack right away. If you choose to take your army and attack the AI that is camping outside your walls the AI will take up a defensive position and wait for you to attack.

So if I wait for the AI long enough inside the walls, they'll come and attack me?

[Stario]

So if I wait for the AI long enough inside the walls, they'll come and attack me?

Yes. Only problem with this is that you loose some troops each turn you wait (this can be annoying with some of the higher tier units which are only recruitable in one city and take many turns to recruit), personally I hate loosing my dismounted Rohan royal guards for nothing. However, don't fear you still have two options:

1. If you have cavalry you can flank the AI and use charge/feint attacks; the AI will just stand there with its arms folded while rolling its thumbs while you annihilate it, if done correctly you should be able to eliminated up to 2000-2500+ of the AI's troops with say 4 Cavalry units (Generals bodyguards) while at the same time giving your Generals great feats. This option is great for taking out the AI General with multiple charges from the rear (as the AI will simply let itself get outflanked). Taking out AI General(s) is particularly useful during invasion as an invading army without a General(s) will turn back and go home.

2. The other option (the more FUN option IMO) is to take your whole army out of your settlement (make sure you position yourself right prior to engaging) then engage the AI with archers and the AI will come for you as in a normal battle.

[cormagus77]

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forums and to the Third Age mod. So far I'm really enjoying it. I do have a question though. Why is it that when you get beseiged by an enemy, they wait for you to get out of the city walls and attack them? Why don't they come with their rams and ladders to get past the city walls?

Well isn't it the point of a siege, to besiege the city instead of atacking straight away?
The aim is to weaken the defenders by starving them, cutting of their supplies, lowering their moral, etc.!
If the ai is doing just that, i think it fits quite well.

However in some rare cases they do come at you right away or a soon as they have their equipment ready!

True, it is still strange that that the ai doesn't even consider seizing the opportunity to attack while you're sallying!
But I think that's one of the limitations of the current ai we have to accept for the moment!

[Germanicu5]

(...) However in some rare cases they do come at you right away or a soon as they have their equipment ready!

True, it is still strange that that the ai doesn't even consider seizing the opportunity to attack while you're sallying!
But I think that's one of the limitations of the current ai we have to accept for the moment!

It's hardcoded, so generally you'd need to accept it "forever" rather than "for a moment"... unless you use my AI.
Some improvements were left out of 1.4 due to slight miscommunication between me and KK, current solution makes AI attack settlement if it has huge advantage and enough siege equipment during a sally-out and I'm working on more active defensive behaviour atm.

Regards

P.S. Here's a setting that'll cause AI to attack you a bit more eagerly while besieging, just open descr_campaign_db.xml in notepad and change following value to something between 0.40-0.60:
<siege_att_str_modifier float="0.30"/>

[cormagus77]

Okay, thanks for the information, Germanicus!!!

just one question:

P.S. Here's a setting that'll cause AI to attack you a bit more eagerly while besieging, just open descr_campaign_db.xml in notepad and change following value to something between 0.40-0.60:
<siege_att_str_modifier float="0.30"/>

Does that mean, the ai attacks, once it outnumbers you roghly 3:1? and you can change this, so it attacks you, once it outnumbers you by 2:1??? Otherwise the ai never attacks and just lets you starve?

[Germanicu5]

Okay, thanks for the information, Germanicus!!!

just one question:

Does that mean, the ai attacks, once it outnumbers you roghly 3:1? and you can change this, so it attacks you, once it outnumbers you by 2:1??? Otherwise the ai never attacks and just lets you starve?

Yea, that's how it's meant to work, the problem is this needs to apply to villages and fortresses, so we'd need something sensible. 0.5 would mean it'd be 2x - probably not enough for AI to capture multi-ring castle, but it'll eliminate most stalls. It's savegame-compatible, so you can adjust it on the fly according to your preferences.

Regards

[Smaug]

P.S. Here's a setting that'll cause AI to attack you a bit more eagerly while besieging, just open descr_campaign_db.xml in notepad and change following value to something between 0.40-0.60:
<siege_att_str_modifier float="0.30"/>

May I point out that the original value is 0,75. At least it is so in RRRC. I changed it to 0,7 which has worked well for me up till now. No more small stacks dripping from Mordor.

[temaire]

P.S. Here's a setting that'll cause AI to attack you a bit more eagerly while besieging, just open descr_campaign_db.xml in notepad and change following value to something between 0.40-0.60:
<siege_att_str_modifier float="0.30"/>

Mine is at 0.75. Should I lower it?

[Dava2710]

it depends on their strenght and your strenght

if its a full stack against 1 unit of militia they will not w8
if its a full stack against a full stack then they won't risk and let you starve first

[Germanicu5]

@Kikka

Yea, I posted vanilla values. 0.7 is a bit high imo, 0.60 would give minimal proportions of ai/player armies of 1.67, which looks barely acceptable given the edge siege defender gets by hiding behing walls.

Regards

[Smaug]

@Kikka

Yea, I posted vanilla values. 0.7 is a bit high imo, 0.60 would give minimal proportions of ai/player armies of 1.67, which looks barely acceptable given the edge siege defender gets by hiding behing walls.

Regards

The problem then is that AI never attacks . Full stacks just stand idle near cities.

[Stario]

This doesn't change the behaviour of AI during sally outs though, but it is definitely better in terms of overall campaign playability. At least it eliminates the AI from using 1/4 stacks. I'm playing with 0.4 (over 100 turns as Rohan) and its nice as AI tends to join its stacks together to make 1 full stack and attack instead of attacking with lots of 1/2 or 1/3 stacks. But as far as sally out IQ goes its still 0

Full stacks just stand idle near cities.

I wonder if you're talking about Harad near Linhir settlement; they always act funny when around that area expecially if you have navy near that cross over island. I remember during a campaign as Gondor they had 4-5 full stacks and still didn't attack my half-stack garrison.

[Smaug]

I wonder if you're talking about Harad near Linhir settlement; they always act funny when around that area expecially if you have navy near that cross over island. I remember during a campaign as Gondor they had 4-5 full stacks and still didn't attack my half-stack garrison.

Actually they are near Barad Harn which I took quite early on.

[Germanicu5]

I'd say 0.6 isn't a bad idea at all, if it slows down siege assaults, you can always change it to a bit higher value.

Regards