Russian fighter crashed

[Siena72]

here are couple of interesting stories:

Russian planes violate Estonian airspace

By TBT staff

TALLINN – The Defense Forces’ General Staff said on Friday that the seven Russian military planes that flew to Kaliningrad had violated aviation rules and jeopardized the safety of Estonia’s civilian air defense traffic.

The Russian aircraft had applied [and] received permission to fly within Estonia’s flight information region, yet when their transponders relaying flight information were switched off while en route to the Kaliningrad exclave, the General Staff explained.

By doing so the aircraft placed civilian aircraft in the same area in jeopardy, Defense Forces said.

The Russian aircraft consisted of an A-50 radio surveillance aircraft and six Sukhoi and MiG jets.

One of the six fighters – a Sukhoi-27 – entered Lithuanian airspace without permission and crashed.

Commission meets to discuss downed Russian fighter

By TBT staff

VILNIUS – An interdepartmental commission investigating the crash of Russian Su-27 fighter in Lithuanian territory was held at a military headquarters on Saturday in the capital with the participation of Russian military officials.

The Russians were acquainted with the facts of the case.

On Friday the Prosecutor General's Office questioned the pilot, Valery Troyanov, for five hours.

The plane crashed in the Sakiai district near the border with the Kaliningrad exclave. The pilot ejected and landed in the neighboring district of Jurbarkas.

The plane had been flying from St. Petersburg to a base in Kaliningrad Oblast.

It is believed that the plane lost its bearings due to a faulty navigation system.

The plane did not have authorization to enter Lithuanian air space.

“I think that the investigation of the reasons behind the accident may take a month,” Defense Staff Chief Brigadier General Vitalijus Vaiksnoras, the head of the interdepartmental commission, told the Baltic News Service.

The rest of the story is the most interesting - Russia is putting diplomatic pressure on Lithuania by requiring to return pieces of the plane and the pilot, which Lithuania is holding while investigation is going on.
Recently the goverment level meeting in Lithuania was canceled by Russians - to put more pressure.

They crash the plane in foreign country - entering it without permission - and then they have the gall to DEMAND something.

[GORE]

for the amount of airspace russia has they really do struggle to stay in it! (i was reading on these forums recently about russian planes violating finnish airspace)

[Siena72]

in this case there is strong suspicion that Russians were testing NATO defences.
Another version - that plane simply crashed - it is Russian built afterall

However it may be - but Russia's behavior in this case is typically "Russian". They fly surveilance mission, they violate foreign airspace, they crash the plane. Then they start DEMANDING and blackmailing Lithuania to return the pilot and pieces of the plane - before investigation is completed. Plane was armed with "air-air" rockets and cannon. There was about 2kg radioactive material retrieved from the crash site.

[wilpuri]

Indeed. Russian foreign policy seems to be run by a bunch of malicious pre-teens, as the border agreement with Estonia once again demonstrated.

[Major König]

The planes did have weapons i understand, so there should be no reason Lithuania should fold to Russian demands. They have no right to demand anything, yet they try to justify and blackmail at the same time. They might just be testing Nato, or their neighbors to an extent.

[Da Skinna]

Putin and Moscow really have their own agenda. It's not possible to tell what they're trying to do in others' airspace. Sketchy bunch those Russians are...

[Garbarsardar]

Putin and Moscow really have their own agenda. It's not possible to tell what they're trying to do in others' airspace. Sketchy bunch those Russians are...

Flexing the old bear's muscles I guess.

[wilpuri]

It brings up the question to what extent the Russian government can control the army. I mean, these violations happen continuously, and the Russian authorities simply deny them. I think that they are unable to enforce orders very effectively...

[Garbarsardar]

It brings up the question to what extent the Russian government can control the army. I mean, these violations happen continuously, and the Russian authorities simply deny them. I think that they are unable to enforce orders very effectively...

I really wish you were right Wil. Because the alternative is that Putin controls the army very well, and those violations are part of a long term strategy of intimidation.

[wilpuri]

Many of these violations seem to be simple carelessness/indifference. Kremlin still denies them, even when the violations are according to one Finnish military official 'undeniable'. It would be embarrassing if they couldn't get their pilots to obey orders...

[Da Skinna]

I doubt it's that, Wilpuri, but it has some credibility looking at the state Russia has been in.

The Kremlin is seriously sketchy, though, they do honestly have some kind of agenda to recreating something akin to the Soviet Union. Think about it, Kremlin's involvement in the Ukrainian presidential elections, their steadfast support of Iran's nuclear program. They still aren't giving up secrets from the Cold War, and their meddling into Kazakhstan's and other former Soviet federations are seriously suspicious. And Putin is one scary mofo... ex-KGB that worked out of Berlin, black belt or equavilent in martial arts, he certainly knows a thing or two about setting up networks. And that's what I think he's trying to do: set up an international network akin to the glorious last days of the Red Empire.

Allying with China, Iran, failing to get their chosen man into Ukraine's presidential office, putting pressure on the Baltic countries and striving to keep the EU from getting to involved in Russia's and former Soviet federations' politics, while creating their own in those countries.

My thoughts, at least.

[Bwaho]

Evil ruskies

their steadfast support of Iran's nuclear program.

Are they supporting it?

that's what I think he's trying to do: set up an international network akin to the glorious last days of the Red Empire.

Only time will tell. Maybe Putin will extend his reign by changing some laws, he will be ruling 'till the day he dies.

[Da Skinna]

Well, the Kremlin defends the program from the US and UN, so I'd think there is support going on behind closed doors.

And indeed, time will tell.

[Kanaric]

Defence doesn't equal support, though you are probably right.

[Cain The Kohan]

Guys did you read first part, or you just know that Russia is evil??
Planes were flying from St. Petersburg to a base in Kaliningrad Oblast, look at map quickies way is to fly over Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.
They even received permission to fly within Estonia’s flight information region, and it is believed that plane lost its bearings due to a faulty navigation system.

The rest of the story is the most interesting - Russia is putting diplomatic pressure on Lithuania by requiring to return pieces of the plane and the pilot, which Lithuania is holding while investigation is going on.
Recently the goverment level meeting in Lithuania was canceled by Russians - to put more pressure.

It still is Russian plane now isn't it?

They crash the plane in foreign country - entering it without permission - and then they have the gall to DEMAND something.

And when US lost F117 over Serbia probably entering it without permission well they were dropping bombs so i guess not and they had and still have no problem in DEMANDING it back .

Also during cold war US was flying its U2 all over the world (ok they had no weapons, but pen is STRONGER than sword) and there was no problem with that, now when russian plane flys from one russian base to another and happens to fly over foreign land that is the biggest evil.

Now if this happened often and with clear intention that would be a problem, but probably it is like Wilpuri said carelessness/indifference and he should know he lives there.
We can also ask him if he thinks that Russia will attack any time soon

It would be a whole lot more than embarassing, it would be downright dangerous. Russia is a nuclear nation. It is also under 20 years old in its current incarnation. How well is the average soldier paid, and how well is the average commander paid? Because, if the nation is weak and if the army is disgruntled and uncontrolable in a nation quite young, a military coup d'etate would not surprise me too much.

M8 do you think that with new name they just forgot their past?
And with country that big one would really need to be a genius to pull it off in world of today.

[Siena72]

Guys did you read first part, or you just know that Russia is evil??
Planes were flying from St. Petersburg to a base in Kaliningrad Oblast, look at map quickies way is to fly over Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.
They even received permission to fly within Estonia’s flight information region, and it is believed that plane lost its bearings due to a faulty navigation system.

I think they flew over Estonia and then over the Baltic sea in the "international corridor". Then one plain turned and entered Lithuanian air space, and later crashed in Lithuania.
So far investigation leans towards conclusion that it was a technical problem.

So that part would be ok.
The problem is that Russia is treating Lithuania like its own province in DEMANDING the plane and pressuring Lithuanian government, which acted in the friendliest way, and is conducting an inpartial investigation as to what went wrong.

Also, other NATO countries sort of kept silent over this. I wonder how situation would differ if that plane would have crashed over Germany?
Would other NATO countries still keep silent? Would Russia be so demanding?

It was a military plane that crashed during the surveilance mission!

It still is Russian plane now isn't it?

And when US lost F117 over Serbia probably entering it without permission well they were dropping bombs so i guess not and they had and still have no problem in DEMANDING it back .

It is the remains of Russian military plain, right. But if military plane crashes over foreign territory - I believe it is in the jurisdiction of the country in which it crashed.

Oh, and I am not about to start ignoring Russian behaviour because Americans did something similar. I don't think American international behavior should be a standard to measure others upon, anymore.

One more quote about Kaliningrad:

Kirkilas: Russian should demilitarize Kaliningrad

By TBT staff

VILNIUS – Defense Minister Gediminas Kirkilas said that heavily armed and fortified region of Kaliningrad Oblast should be demilitarized.

Speaking days after a Russian jet fighter flying to Kaliningrad crashed on Lithuanian territory, Kirkilas said, “Even Russians say that [the accident] might have happened due to a very narrow corridor for flying to Kaliningrad, so I wonder what that narrow corridor is for.”

In his words, the Kaliningrad exclave is surrounded by friendly government – Lithuanian and Poland – and there is no reason for a heavy military presence there.

“Demilitarization of Kaliningrad is first of all in the interests of Kaliningrad residents. Kaliningrad residents today lose millions of euros just because there is such a situation there,” he said, adding that the region, by far the poorest in northern Europe, could be a prosperous one.

[Cain The Kohan]

The problem is that Russia is treating Lithuania like its own province in DEMANDING the plane and pressuring Lithuanian government, which acted in the friendliest way, and is conducting an inpartial investigation as to what went wrong.

Russia is strong (not as strong as they want to be, but still), in world today powerful can demand what he wants. Look at US, thou i totaly agree with you that American international behavior shouldn't be a standard to measure others upon, anymore.
Is this right or wrong, probably wrong but thats how it is

It was a military plane that crashed during the surveilance mission!

What makes you think it was on surveillance mission??
Didnt they said it was Su27, not best plane for surveilance missions IMHO.

One more quote about Kaliningrad:

It is russian province they can do there anything they want. Again rule of the powerful and this kinda sounds like Lithua is demanding something from Russia

[wilpuri]

Well, as strong as they are, might is not right. But most of these violations seem to be a result of carelessness, which is a bad sign anyway. The Kremlin is run by adolescents (or so it seems) and they insist on denying the violations.

As for Russia attacking Finland, no I can't see that happening anytime soon. But NATO membership looks attractive regardless.

[Cain The Kohan]

But NATO membership looks attractive regardless.

Not to be rude, but can Finland even join?? Didn't USSR demand from it to be neutral same as Austria?
I mean no disrespect just want to know.

[Siena72]

What makes you think it was on surveillance mission??

.....

It is russian province they can do there anything they want.

look at the original post - it was an offcial surveilance mission. Fighter planes were accompying surveilance plane.

Lithuania is a member of EU and NATO.
If Lithuania is Russian province - then so is the rest of Europe.

Not to be rude, but can Finland even join?? Didn't USSR demand from it to be neutral same as Austria?

You play too much TotalWar
What right does Russia have to demand that any independent country would be (or not be) a member of any international organization?
Also demand from whom? Form European Union? Form NATO? From Finland?