Excerpt from the Munich presentation

Thread: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

  1. Lucullus's Avatar

    Lucullus said:

    Default Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    This is an excerpt of mandelus review of the release version presentation in munich. hes playing TW since 2002 and is admin at the german TWZone (twcenter for germans so to say) and a defender of CA and especially the quality of ETW. Ill just post some core aspects of interest (MP and AI). Im not going to translate it word by word but give a short summary. Other german speaking members might confirm it please.

    IV-a. Die Schlachten – Grundsatz

    Was als erstes auffällt ist, dass hier beim Laden der Schlacht das Gelände und die eigene, wie auch die feindliche Position direkt gezeigt werden. Was mir auch auffiel war, dass der Ladebalken doch erstaunlich lange aktiv war …
    Zuvor gibt es aber direkt den ersten Wehrmutstropfen, denn ich habe mich erstmal im MP und in SP eigene Schlachten umgesehen und habe die erste „Vollmacke“ im Spiel notiert:

    Da fehlen massig Einheiten in der Auswahl!!!!

    Ich hatte mich erstmal so durch ein paar Nationen durchgeklickt und Hinkel wies mich darauf hin, dass die Briten keine Grenadiere haben! Wie, keine Grenadiere??? Weitere Nationen angesehen und in der Tat, da ist was mächtig faul, sowohl bei den anderen Nationen was fehlende Landeinheiten angeht, als auch bei den Seeschlachten! Als Brite die HMS Victory oder als Spanier die Santissima Trinidad auswählen in SP oder MP Schlachten? Fehlanzeige, gar nicht enthalten in der Einheitenauswahl!

    „Mark, can you please come to us?“

    Nachdem es Mark gezeigt und dargelegt wurde, eindringlich und intensiv letztlich, da wurde es als ein wichtiger Korrekturpunkt aufgenommen. In der tat ist es dann auch Mark schnell klar geworden, dass dieses wichtig ist, denn das ist so wie es gestern war „Mucke“ und bedeutet Ärger! Vor allem ist dieser Fehler ohne Sinn und Verstand, denn wieso sollen da die Briten keine Grenadiere, die Schweden ganze 4 Infanterieeinheiten und wieso soll die hier wichtige HMS Victory und die extra in der Werbung genannte Trinidad nicht im MP und SP bei Schlachten dabei sein? Die Sachen sind im Spiel an sich alle enthalten, denn natürlich kann man in der Kampagne als Brite Grenadiere, als Schwede mehr Infanterie als nur 4 verschiedene Einheiten rekrutieren usw.. Natürlich sind in der historischen Schlacht „Trafalgar“, wie auch in der Kampagne die beiden Dickschiffe drin, wieso also hier dann nicht?
    Klarer Minuspunkt, der aber laut Mark umgehend angegangen wurde und den er sich als wichtigen Punkt notierte! Nur ehrlich gesagt ist es mir unverständlich, dass so was offensichtliches erst gestern auffällt und ich kann es mir nicht verkneifen hier einen heftigen Seitenhieb auf die Spielezeitschriften zu machen! Was zum Geier haben die da getestet, dass ihnen so was nicht aufgefallen war!
    Battles

    1. Loading Battles takes a good while
    2. He played MP and custom SP battles and noticed an enormous lack of units and diversity (e.g. england no grenadiers, sweden only 4 infantryunits)

    Mark from Ca noticed it promised to give it to CA HQ.


    IV-d. Die Schlachten – KI

    Jetzt bei den Schlachten der vielleicht wichtigste Punkt für Meisten: Die KI!

    Einerseits war die KI erfreulich diesmal, andererseits beinhalt sie den vielleicht größten Bug im Spiel.
    An sich verhält sich die KI in den Schlachten gut und besser koordiniert und sie nutzt ihre Chancen auch. Ich spielte hier die Schlacht von Lori als erstes auf der höchsten Schwierigkeit (heißt hier Profi) und ich habe die KI besiegt, auch wenn ich wegen Zeitablauf verlor, eben weil der General der KI leider überlebte. Es war aber nicht einfach 08/15, auch wenn ich sie hart ran nahm im Spiel. Ich habe ein Angriff im Zentrum gemacht und gleichzeitig einen Flankenvorstoß, so geriet sie letztlich in die Hammer und Amboss Situation, was halt tödlich ist. Sie reagierte aber entsprechend angemessen und nutzte das Gelände zur Abwehr gut aus, auch brachte sie meinen Flankenangriff fast ins Grab durch die Gegenaktionen. Kurz, sie war eine Herausforderung gewesen und hat mich hier positiv überrascht … wenn dann nicht das Aber wäre!

    Bereits bei Lori bemerkte ich eine Sache, der ich dann unter eigene Schlachten nachging (auch wenn wir da offiziell eigentlich nicht spielen sollten oder doch durften, keine Ahnung und egal). Um es kurz zu machen:

    Der idiotische Nahkampfbug ist wieder voll drin im Spiel und das sogar ziemlich ätzend!

    Bei Lori war ich mir wegen der Häuser nicht sicher, aber bei eigene Schlachten war es dann ganz krass. Die KI feuerte hier eine Salve ab und dann gab es direkt den Angriff mit dem Bajonett = Nahkampf!

    DAS wurde von Mark etwas schockiert aufgenommen und als eigentlich wichtigste Erkenntnis mit oberster Priorität zur Abschaffung notiert.
    Damit das aber dann auch wirklich funktioniert, habe ich es Mark mehr als deutlich und in diversen Gesprächen klar gemacht, wie und was sie hier zu tun haben. Grob gesagt sollen sie sich hier einfach an dem DarthMod orientieren, also u.a. die Reichweiten allgemein erhöhen! Die Infanterie hatte hier wieder 80 als Reichweite, muss aber 110 haben. Nur dann macht sie auch den Feuerkampf, weil genau dann nur der Wille da ist, auch die Reichweite der Schusswaffe zu nutzen! 80 ist zu wenig, einfach zu wenig und sorgt dafür, dass die KI hier lieber die Option Nahkampf auswählt!

    Übrigens: Mark hat mir offiziell bestätigt, das Darth_Vader mit CA zusammenarbeitet (@ Staublicht).

    Wie auch immer, durch diese intensiven Gespräche wurde von CA das Problem in seinem ganzen Ausmaß erkannt und auch was die ungeheure Wichtigkeit angeht. Mark hat dieses nach England direkt gemeldet! Für das Release ist es zu spät, leider, aber es soll und muss im ersten Patch korrigiert werden. Das Problem ist als ernst, wird als solches angesehen und wird so schnell wie irgendwie möglich gelöst, Ziel also erreicht.
    Allerdings wird es klar sein, dass es nach dem Release dann hier und auf allen Boards entsprechend „Meckerei“ geben wird. Es ist ja berechtigt, doch alle die das jetzt lesen wissen zumindest jetzt bereits Bescheid und auch, dass CA das hier lösen wird!

    BAI

    1. AI army seems to be more coordinated, uses terrain, seems able to flank resonable (historical battle)
    2. He saw something with the BAI that made him curious so he tested again in some custom battles (he shouldnt do or wasnt allowed to but he did it anyway)
    3. Result: Melee Bug still existant in all its glory. Opponent units fire 1x and attack with bayonet. Mandelus told it to Mark from CA who was shocked and noticed it again for CA HQ.
    4. Mark offcially confirmed Mandelus, that CA is working together with Darth Vader
    5. For the release version its to late to fix but it should be fixed with the first patch
    6. Mandelus is quite sure that people will complain directly after release about BAI



    Seems like the doubts were justified. The lack of diversity of units is not surprising though, CA wants to sell PDLC of course. About the BAI I can only shake my head. Seems to be pretty obvious that AI and BAI got barely any ressources in ETW and for NTW as well. TW at release is for impulse buyers these days who judge on marleting and eye candy.



    Source: http://www.totalwar-zone.de/forum/er...f278/?02ab5fc1
    Last edited by Lucullus; February 13, 2010 at 01:27 PM.
     
  2. jimmy44 said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear - CA havn't even managed to fix the melee bug in NTW! This is really pathetic. I certainly won;t be buying this game. I would bet my house on the fact that NTW will be a shambles like Empire.
     
  3. random_samurai's Avatar

    random_samurai said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    Interesting.
     
  4. Abspara's Avatar

    Abspara said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    It's not looking very promising. The melée bug should of been a big priority to fix prior to launch.
    The extra development time will allow us to finalize and polish Empire, making it the most accomplished and epic of the Total War series." said Kieran Brigden, Studio Communications Manager at The Creative Assembly. "There is a great deal of anticipation around Empire: Total War and we want to ensure that it is the benchmark for strategy games upon its release.
     
  5. Graphic's Avatar

    Graphic said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    About the unit diversity, maybe it had to do with the early/late setting in the custom battle?

    I count five types of just line infantry in this one pic.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    .
     
  6. ♔DoomBunny666♔'s Avatar

    ♔DoomBunny666♔ said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    Quote Originally Posted by Graphic View Post
    About the unit diversity, maybe it had to do with the early/late setting in the custom battle?

    I count five types of just line infantry in this one pic.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Those 5 probably arent all line infantry, probably soem are grenadiers, oh and Highlanders arent infantry there Tartan Devils!

    Shoot coward! You are only going to kill a man!
     
  7. Blofeld2k's Avatar

    Blofeld2k said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    Darth working with CA? Didn't he deny any such affiliations just recently?
    On release
    Quote:
    “Empire: Total War has exceeded all our expectations. It's one of those rare "great works" that the team will remember with enormous pride for the rest of their lives, and the public will remember as one of the landmark games of the decade”
    Mike Simpson, Creative Director at The Creative Assembly

    Oct 9 '09
    Quote:
    "I had 6 copies of Empire: Total War sat on my shelf intended for close gamer friends that I didn’t send out because I was too embarrassed about the flaws."
    Mike Simpson, Creative Director at The Creative Assembly
     
  8. mcsam said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    I find it strange that the factions aren't fleshed out as they should, considering there are fewer factions, more units (according to CA 355 if i remember correctly), and no colonial units.

    Even stranger is that they couldn't iron out the melee bug, which Darth managed to mod out on his own, and which should be patched out of Empire soon.

    As an optimist, I will take this with a grain of salt and see for myself on the 26th. But it would sadden me if it's all correct.
     
  9. Pickle_mole's Avatar

    Pickle_mole said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    well this is lame but expected
    I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you F___ with me, I'll kill you all.
    - Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders

    Nostalgia aint as good as it used to be
     
  10. cantopsych said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    hmm disappointing to hear this indeed-
     
  11. King Edward III's Avatar

    King Edward III said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    Not surprised.
    According to the Theory of War, which teaches that the best way to avoid the inconvenience of war is to pursue it away from your own country, it is more sensible for us to fight our notorious enemy in his own realm, with the joint power of our allies, than it is to wait for him at our own doors.

    - King Edward III, 1339
     
  12. DARTH VADER's Avatar

    DARTH VADER said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    What are you saying who is this... Mandelus... I remember him PM me about things.... Now I remember.
    I have also the review copy and I tested but there is an embargo and he cannot state anything before late day of 19/2/2010...as I cannot. Sega may sue him.
    And what about me working with CA.... what non sense is this. I will sue him too. Where is he?

    ---maybe a translation error? I am cooperating with CA with brief emails... that is the truth as I have stated and CA stated.
    Last edited by Astaroth; February 13, 2010 at 02:32 PM. Reason: removed reference to deleted post
     
  13. moisesjns's Avatar

    moisesjns said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    so darth is not working for them and wants to sue now which is bad because if darth is not involved i guess it's true that the melee bug is gonna be in sigh i was on the fence about pre ordering it seems to be getting negative though im not sure ill buy it anymore not that it matters if one guy doesint buy it.


    ps is the pre order only 40$ or after its release will it still be 40$
     
  14. Ulan1990 said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    First off he only noticed some units missing and didn't say generely unit diversity is bad and Darth even made a stickied thread of how he cooperates with ca (sorry couldn't find it) and never accuse a member of twc (especially such a well respected member as Darth) without good information
    Last edited by Ulan1990; February 13, 2010 at 01:28 PM.
     
  15. Graphic's Avatar

    Graphic said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    Quote Originally Posted by DoomBunny666 View Post
    Those 5 probably arent all line infantry, probably soem are grenadiers, oh and Highlanders arent infantry there Tartan Devils!
    They all have the same icon on the lower left of the unit card. But you could still be right. Perhaps grenadiers got folded into line infantry status (but still have strong melee stats and whatever else). After all someone said that grens are now 120-man units on Large.
    Last edited by Astaroth; February 13, 2010 at 02:33 PM.
    .
     
  16. Friedrich Barbarossa's Avatar

    Friedrich Barbarossa said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    Erm false great misunderstanding ...
    Mandelus said that the units just aren't avaible in custom battles.
    There are British Grenadiers in the Campaign or historical battles. And more Swedish troops too.
    They are missed in the MP or SP battles also no KGL for British as an Example.
    But he also states that the general unit diversity is highly improved compared with Empire.
    The units are just not "activated" for battles.
     
  17. Korporal said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH VADER View Post
    And what about me working with CA.... what non sense is this. I will sue him too. Where is he?

    ---maybe a translation error? I am cooperating with CA with brief emails... that is the truth as I have stated and CA stated.
    It is a translation error. The German verb used here, "zusammenarbeiten", translates as "cooperate". Otherwise, it would be "arbeiten für" = "work for/with". So relax, no false claims were made.
     
  18. Turumba's Avatar

    Turumba said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    Quote Originally Posted by Korporal View Post
    It is a translation error. The German verb used here, "zusammenarbeiten", translates as "cooperate". Otherwise, it would be "arbeiten für" = "work for/with". So relax, no false claims were made.
    Confirmed. We germans use "zusammenarbeiten" as a introduction verb- the verb itself means nothing and all without a further clarification. And there is no further clarification. Dont mind, Darth Vader.

    Still a very good review- in fact, the first review i read without the reviewer is beeing "kind of corrupted" by the "honour" of visiting CA and as result the reviewer explaining any issues very carefully. I respect that this reviewer speak some clear words.
    Last edited by Turumba; February 13, 2010 at 07:22 PM.
    If you're dealing with the devil, it's not the devil who changes, but rather the devil change you - for sanity is like a spider, sitting in a net woven from the finest of strings, unaware of the hand coming closer, being grabbed and stuffed into a mouth.
    Check this: Turumba's Twitch and Youtube channel!
     
  19. Blofeld2k's Avatar

    Blofeld2k said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    Quote Originally Posted by Korporal View Post
    It is a translation error. The German verb used here, "zusammenarbeiten", translates as "cooperate". Otherwise, it would be "arbeiten für" = "work for/with". So relax, no false claims were made.
    Ok, so how is cooperate not the same as working with?

    Is Darth cooperating with CA or not? And I don't mean doing mods.
    On release
    Quote:
    “Empire: Total War has exceeded all our expectations. It's one of those rare "great works" that the team will remember with enormous pride for the rest of their lives, and the public will remember as one of the landmark games of the decade”
    Mike Simpson, Creative Director at The Creative Assembly

    Oct 9 '09
    Quote:
    "I had 6 copies of Empire: Total War sat on my shelf intended for close gamer friends that I didn’t send out because I was too embarrassed about the flaws."
    Mike Simpson, Creative Director at The Creative Assembly
     
  20. Nizam89's Avatar

    Nizam89 said:

    Default Re: Excerpt from the Munich presentation

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH VADER View Post
    What are you saying who is this... Mandelus... I remember him PM me about things.... Now I remember.
    I have also the review copy and I tested but there is an embargo and he cannot state anything before late day of 19/2/2010...as I cannot. Sega may sue him.
    And what about me working with CA.... what non sense is this. I will sue him too. Where is he?
    Hahah... one of the greatest comments on this forum. Where is he? Troopers! I want him now! Quickly!He shall taste my iron fist!
    "I warn every animal on this farm to keep his eyes very wide open."
    Pig Schwatzwutz
    NASA's biggest blunder was not having Neil Armstrong say, " That's one small step for man,....hey, that looks like gold!"