Pikemen, Spearmen, Phalanx, Hoplites, OH MY!

[Team Sleep]

Hey friends...me again with some more questions.

Alright so I notice there are obviously quite a number of different pole-arm units as their should be in this time period. But I'm unsure of their roles in a very general fighting force.

So I was wondering if someone with patients would mind explaining to me in depth & link exactly how each of the four units (Pikemen/Spearmen/Phalanx/Hoplite) differ from each other, and how they should best be employed in a combat situation in conjunction with other units (missile/cavalry/infantry/misc.) that are found in a fighting force.

Also...do any of these 4 share the same role in combat? If so, which should be used more frequently in various situations? (Please give as many detailed examples as possible)

I realize that this may be a serious in depth answer that may require time and patients. But, I would appreciate the time and effort put in as well as keeping in mind details minor and major which would allow me to get a greater perspective on the role, differences and similarities of these units.

Thank you, Friends.

[ISA Gunner]

The Phalanx is a square formation of 256 phalangites. 16 men deep, 16 men wide. It was a type of warfare invented by Alexander the Great's father, Phillip I of Macedon. Each man is armed with an 18-21 foot pike (6-7 metres) with a counterweight at the back to support it. As well as the pike, they have a medium sized bronze shield hanging over their shoulder via straps and attached to the left forearm. This allowed the man to wield the pike with 2 hands for maximum efficiency whilst still having the protection of a shield. So basically, you have this solid group of men marching forward with 5-6 rows of pike-points sticking out the front. It was basically impregnable from the front for infantry, let alone cavalry. It's weaknesses however were the lack of mobility. It would be very hard to turn around in a combat situation for a phalanx. The only way was to to keep pushing forward or to stop and retreat slowly backwards. Traditionally, the phalanx was used to push into an enemy front line and pin them there whilst pushing them back, thrusting and stabbing the enemy to death. It was best used with infantry (swordsmen, hoplites, spearmen) guarding the flanks and cavalry to flank the pinned down enemy, and deliver an almighty charge into the rear of the enemy. To smash into them and break and destroy them. This was known as the hammer and anvil tactic.

Anybody wielding a spear (generally 2-3 metres long, if not shorter) would be considered a spearman. Unless they were female. Then they'd be a spearwoman. Anyway, yeah. Just like swordsmen, but armed with spears. More defensive though. Great for defending cities and towns as spears mean that you have a length advantage over a swordsmen. You can stab them whilst they can't hack at you. Also much better suited to engaging cavalry. Horses hate spears. Lots of sharp, pointy things stabbing at you hurts and it frightens them. Horses also will simply NOT charge into a wall of spears. Whether it be a short spear, or a massive phalangite's pike. Good for protecting an army's flanks in open battle against flanking cavalry.

Hoplites are the traditional style of fighting that Greeks used for hundreds and hundreds of years. It's a solid block of men, armed with large bronze shields (2 times bigger than a phalangite's) and a short, 2-3 metre spear. Their shields would sort of overlap and the spears were held overhand, above the shoulder, with the spears protruding through the gaps in the shields. This solid block of men would push into an enemy, much like a phalanx and keep using the sheer weight of all those heavily armoured men to push the enemy back. Once they're pushed back, they will fall. That is when most of the enemies are killed. They are knocked down by these heavy bronze shields and are stabbed. This hoplite phalanx has the same sort of use and advantages of the Macedonian invented phalanx, save for the much longer spears and larger shields as well as generally heavier armour. It is however slightly hard to maneuver such a large, dense group of men in tight, combat situations. Not as hard though as rotating a phalanx with 6-7 metre pikes. Becuase hoplites are basically heavily armoured spearmen, they are used as the main line by the Greeks. They also carry swords, too. They are quite versatile. Can be used as main line heavy infantry, as well as protecting the flanks of the more vulnerable phalanx.

And a pikeman is simply a man who wields a pike. Pikes are much longer than spears. 5 metres onwards. Most were 6-7 metres long and most pikemen of ancient times operated in the Macedonian style phalanx. The Macedonian phalangites were the first to use pikes in that manner. Not having pikemen in a tight, dense formation is pointless because it would give the enemy a lot of room to maneuver and it would be too easy to dodge the pike and close in for the kill.

Hope this helped.

[Boriak]

I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything. I just want to point out some detail I learned and I'm interested in other people's opinion on it.

About the pikemen. In truth Macedonians were not the first ones to use them. In fact the Theban general Epaminondas first used the pikes and defeated the Spartans at Leuctra. They were longer than the average hoplite's spear but shorter from the sarissa. In fact, Phillip of Macedon, father of Alexander the Great, was a hostage in Thebes in his youth. It was here he observed the pikemen in training and decided to upgrade it with adding more length to the pike.

And about horses not willing to charge into a wall of spears. Here is an excerpt from a book I read not long ago:
"A cavalry charge is nothing grander than a directed stampede. Men have believed that horses will refuse to overrun massed infantry, as they will baulk at running into a wall of stone. But horses are herd animals, and in the madness of the rush, they will follow the leader headlong off a cliff. In the formation of the wedge, where the commander's horse is alone at the point, the mounts of the suceeding chevrons are not following their eyes and senses; they're following the lead horse. And if the leader is brave enough or reckless enough, the trailers must follow. The same instinct that drives a herd off a precipice will propel it into massed infantry."

Opinions?

[torongill]

Well, I'll start by telling you the differences between the spear and the pike. The spear is a one-handed weapon, with length from 1.8 to 2.7m(6-9 feet). The pike is held in both hands because it's too cumbersome, too long and too heavy to be used with one hand only. Its length - 3-6m(10-20 feet).

Spears are maybe the oldest purpose-built weapon known to man. In its form, as used by the armies of the bronze and early iron age, the spear was about 1.8m long. as such it could be used as a javelin(throwing spear) and a spear(thrusting spear). It was wielded one-handed, while the other arm was holding the shield(and usually it was a big one, since protective gear was not common and was also really expensive).
The next evolution was the doru - the Greek eight-footer. In my opinion, the longer greek spear was an effect of the tight formation greeks developed. Massive formations of troops were common even before that, but in my opinion the greeks first used a formation that applied shock tactics, they were the first to enforce the tight formation we know as hoplite phalanx through the gear they used(the hoplite shield is useless for single combat as it leaves the warrior's right side uncovered) and the first to design a spear that allows the second and third ranks to participate in the combat. According to some, the name of the Dorian Greeks - the most famous of whom are the Spartans, was derived from the name of their longer spear.
The Spartans proved masters of hoplite warfare and to defeat them something else was needed. The Theban general Epaminondas designed a even longer spear, or properly called - a pike - 3.6m/12 feet. It was too long to be used in one hand. So Epaminondas designed a new shield, that was a bit lighter, was not circular, but cut from the sides and allowed the shield hand to grasp the the pike in a two-handed grip. This new gear and the "amassment" formation that Epaminondas developed allowed Thebes to defeat the Spartans and end the Spartan Hegemony.
Philip of Macedon was hostage for three years in Thebes and was reportedly a lover of Epaminondas. This close point of view let him observe the new pikemen of Thebes and the nature of their combat. When he ascended the throne of Macedon, he developed a new army. The core of the infantry were pikemen. Philip gave them an even longer pike, the famous sarissa. It was 16-18 feet/4.8-5.4m long. With this weapon the first 5 ranks of the formation could bring their weapons to bear. It was a forest of spears. The sarissa with its great length was useless for single combat, so soldiers had a real stimulus to stick to their formation. Thus the Macedonian/Hellenistic phalanx was born.

I suppose you ask in connection with EB: RTW, so let's get it straight. The ONLY pikemen in EB:RTW are the phalangites, the soldiers of the Macedonian/Hellenistic phalanx. Phalanx in EB and RTW means "macedonian pikemen phalanx", with the first 5 soldiers pointing their pikes to the enemy. Everyone else who has a spear is a spearman. The hoplites are spearmen, too. The hoplite phalanx(if you have RTW:BI 1.6, the "shieldwall" formation is just like it) is a tight formation of hoplites who lock their shields together and form a solid front. They also hold their spears above the shields, and the first three ranks of men can attack the enemy. The macedonian phalanx evolved from the hoplite phalanx.

Spearmen are warriors, whose primary weapon is a spear. The hoplites were spearmen. The Roman Triarii were spearmen. Those warriors of Gaul, who used a spear as a primary weapon, were also spearmen.

Tactics and usage with other units. I'm talking real life here, since some of the stuff covered here cannot be implemented in RTW.
Hoplites - They massed in a tight formation, usually 8-16 deep, the front ranks locked their shields together and the whole army advanced against the enemy. The first three men of the hoplite phalanx leveled their spears and attacked the enemy with them. The others behind them pushed them against the enemy and the battle quicly became a pushing match. The deeper formation and/or the better trained usually won, because either of the weight of numbers or the training, that allowed a syncronised push forward. That is basically it. The basic function of the hoplite phalanx is "advance forward and engage enemy". Because it relied on the locked shields of the front ranks for complete protection, the hoplite formation was not very maneurverable. It was difficult to destroy from the front but was vulnerable from the sides and back(as are all military units). The Greeks did not use much cavalry, so the hoplite phalanx wasn't really used in a "combined arms" kind of way. During the Classical period of Greece cavalry was used for scouting, screening, as well as attacking the routed enemy and chasing the light infantry off the field. Light infantry was in the form of squires, old men and boys who were nowhere near effective. The main event of any battle of Classical Greece featured two hoplite phalanxes, advancing against each other and then proceeding to whack their heads and push until one side had enough.

Pikemen/Phalangites - The basic unit of the macedonian phalanx was the syntagma, 256 phalangites, deployed either 8 or 16 deep. 16 deep meant the syntagma was a block of 16*16 soldiers. 6 Syntagmas made one taxis(brigade). Alexander had with him 6 such brigades when he advanced on Persia. During march and advance the sarissa pikes of the phalangites were held vertical. They were dropped to the horisontal attacking position and to execute a turn the soldiers raised their sarissas, turned and lowered them again. In practice as long as the formation held and presented a united front, the phalanx was invincible from the front. It was designed to advance forward, pin the enemy with the pikes and roll over them. The only way to defeat it from the front was with another phalanx. But one can immediately see the vulnerability of the macedonian phalanx: Once the unit had entered combat it was impossible to maneuver(since turning would require the phalangites to raise their pikes and lose their single advantage). The phalanx had to preserve a united front, so over rough ground(like rocks, etc), where the unit lost cohesion and holes appeared in the pike forest, the phalanx was at disadvantage. It was also slow. The smaller shields meant that the macedonian phalanx was vulnerable to missiles - javelins, arrows and slingshots. The macedonian phalanx was especially vulnerable from the sides and back, since the sarissa was useless for single and/or close combat and the small shield could not provide a lot of body protection. Everything said so far means that there had to be light infantry in front of the phalanx to defeat and disperse the enemy javelineers, there had to be other soldiers(the Hypasists), who protected the flanks of the phalanx, as well as other light troops(peltastas, armed with a light shield, a sword and javelins or a spear), to fill the gaps between the blocks of the phalanx and to provide the connection to the cavalry.

Philip and Alexander used their armies in a hammer-and-anvil tactics: the elite cavalry, stationed on the right was the primary hitting arm, or the hammper. It defeated the enemy. The phalanx was used to engage and hold the enemy infantry, effectively pinning them with their sarissa pikes to be struck from behind with the cavalry. The Companion cavalry and their support were the hammer, while the phalanx was the anvil.

If you want to know about the generic spearmen, not specifically hoplites, they were the most basic infantry, since the spear is essentially a long stick with a sharp thing at the end.


This is the basic formation of the Macedonian army, the heavy infantry are the phalangites with the macedonian phalanx. The Hypasists are mislabeled as "elite heavy cavalry", while they were infantry


Here you can see more pictures of a phalangite with his pike, a hoplite with his spear and both in comparison. If you have more questions, don't hesitate to ask.
http://myweb.unomaha.edu/~mreames/Alexander/sarissa_jones.html

Edit: I'm glad I'm not the only one to find pleasure in Alexander: The virtues of War

[athanaric]

That's a hell of a lot of information. Had anyone asked this on another forum, say Blizzard or GPG, he would have got crap like "lol n00b read the FAQ" as an answer. My conclusion: EB fans rule.


Some general remarks, game play wise:

Spearmen is a generic term and refers to anyone who carries a spear (unless he or she is cavalry).

Hoplites are well-trained armoured warriors with a spear and a sword (and sometimes other stuff, too). Due to the nature of the RTW engine, the sword has been left out in most cases.


If you want to kill cavalry, Hoplites or the non-phalanx pikemen (Iphikrateans, Thorakitai Hoplitai, the Dacian dudes, Speudogordoz, Alpine Phalanx, and the Mori Gaesum) are the way to go.

Phalangitai, OTOH, are more of a mobile wall that is designed to stop anything dead in its tracks, from cavalry to chariots to any type of infantry. They are ill-suited for a more active role, though.
-> never use them on walls, unless you have no other choice. Their low defence skill will get them slaughtered.

[Boriak]

Edit: I'm glad I'm not the only one to find pleasure in Alexander: The virtues of War

All books by Steven Pressfield, the ones about ancient Greece anyway, are worth their weight in gold. I haven't bought or read his other books so I cannot comment on them.

[Team Sleep]

This is great! I'd like to thank everyone for their input. It was very educational and informative and I will hope to take this knowledge onto the battlefield that is EB RTW v 1.2.

@Athanaric Yeah you said it right...I was going to make a remark on the original post asking for responses from only "the people with brains" , But I knew the EB crew & fans wouldn't let me down.

So I only found out yesterday that EB has a playable version for BI? Anybody have a link to some FAQ or general info on that mod of BI?

Again...I can't express enough about how helpful and insightful those that helped me on this post are. Thank you again friends.

[torongill]

mmm, I have the files that enable EB for BI, but don't remember where did I find them. I suggest you search in the "SubMods" subforum. There's an .exe file that installs everything you need to run EB on RTW:BI(provided of course that you installed BI and then patched it to v1.6). Also, you might consider playing EB with Alexander Total War. It has a more developed engine and the AI is better, according to reports(for example, they retrain their units, something that RTW and BI don't have). I stayed away from ATW, because I don't know if they have "shieldwall" for the hoplite phalanx and I really need to have that. But if you prefer more hellenistic phalanx, then maybe Alex is better for you. Search the forum, there are topics on how to modify EB for Alex.

[Horse Archer]

@ Team Sleep: Hey, that was me that told you. Any chance you're gonna be playing multiplayer any time soon? Actually the invitation applies to all.

But ditto on the uses of long wooden pointy things.

[magraev]

There are some barbarian phalanx-units in EB (helveti phalanx and german ditto) that don't have the phalanx formation. I'd like to know if they can be used like a greek phalanx or if they are more like spearmen. I noticed they have another animation and seem to be able to fight 2-3 deep.

[Entropy Judge]

The Speutogardoz? IIRC (not being able to play Rome at the moment, or for the foreseeable future), they function similarly to light Pikes - like the phalangites, they can hold enemy units at bay, and are more defensive than offensive troops, as well as being faster. However, they lack the numbers (IIRC) and total Defense of Pikes. Going up against light-Defense troops (mainly other barbarians or low-tier units) or Cavalry they're pretty effective, but they aren't as good as true Phalangites against more heavily-armored troops.

[Dargaron]

The Speutogardoz? IIRC (not being able to play Rome at the moment, or for the foreseeable future), they function similarly to light Pikes - like the phalangites, they can hold enemy units at bay, and are more defensive than offensive troops, as well as being faster. However, they lack the numbers (IIRC) and total Defense of Pikes. Going up against light-Defense troops (mainly other barbarians or low-tier units) or Cavalry they're pretty effective, but they aren't as good as true Phalangites against more heavily-armored troops.

Except they also have the Armor-piercing attribute, I love those guys! Although German Pikemen don't have the numbers of Hellenic Phalangites, they can fulfill the same role in the forests of Germania. And they can actually charge, so they are like a cross between Phalangites and Hoplites.

[athanaric]

Except they also have the Armor-piercing attribute, I love those guys!

They don't. They have a huge attack though and increased lethality.

And they can actually charge, so they are like a cross between Phalangites and Hoplites.

Exactly. Same charge bonus as Hoplites, which is pretty big.
Additionally, they have great morale and stamina (both better than Classical Hoplites). Makes a mobile cavalry shredder.
Combine them with Worgozez to get the ultimate Bodyguard Killer machine (against all types).

[magraev]

Thanks for the reply. Having played some more I suspect that there are more than one kind of phalanx in this mod. The "official" one with the special formation and very long pikes, and the weaker one, where it's just a matter of the unit animation making them present a wall of (shorter) pikes. This later one seems to be mostly used by barbarians.

[Titus Maximius Thongus]

German pikemen are awesome.

One of my fav units are the barbarian archer units that carry 2h spears. really useful for fighting off cav forays into the rear ranks

[Centrius]

Persian Archer-Spearmen are even more awesome. Especially when they start gaining some chevrons and all.