Light infantry and grenadiers - 120 men per unit

We've seen from the videos that the number of soldiers in grenadiers and light infantry units are 120 for 'ultra' scale (90 for large).

I guess this is a quite awesome balance change because they will become potent units and worth having in the battlefield. Grenadiers were too small and required micromanagement but in NTW they will be a full alternative to line infantry with their superb melee and grenades.

And light infantry being 120 men per unit makes them more useful because as far I know (from the videos) the riflemen are still 80 (or even smaller)

Cool story, bro

Nah, I'm kidding. This is good news!

Thanks a lot for your info and investigation! +rep I hope that the amount of grenades is limited or can be edited by us modders.

Stefan doesn't like grenades.

Too much light infantry-why just help spammers CA WHYYYYYY???? Dear God, please tell me they've learned to cap these historically inaccurate pieces of crap.

Originally Posted by Soveriegn

Too much light infantry-why just help spammers CA WHYYYYYY???? Dear God, please tell me they've learned to cap these historically inaccurate pieces of crap.

It's true they're not depicted accurately. But it's that they're underpowered, not OP. (grande bande units, not skirmisher chains.) I'm more interested in historical accuracy than MP balance. Elting and co:

http://www.napoleon-series.org/milit...c_tactics.html

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

...

This could have been the comment of a Prussian officer at Jena fifteen years later. The émigré journalist Maller du Pan made a simple observation, as snide as it was accurate, on the French employment of tirailleurs en grande bandes

'Tactical plans are a pure waste of time against a vast scum of floating irregular troops whose true force consists of their impetuous torrent.'

John Elting is even more succinct

'Prussian, Austrian, Spanish, Piedmantese, Neapolitan, and English generals did their professional best and eventually found that some vulgarian of a French ex-sergeant, whom they had completely outmaneuvered, would fail to recognize the hopelessness of his situation, or that a recent captain of French artillery would show a shocking disregard for the accepted system of strategy and tactics. Thereupon another military masterpiece would degenerate into a knock-down-drag-out grudge fight.

Put yourself in their place. Swarms of skirmishers have enveloped your tight, strictly dressed formations, firing from behind cover in a most unsoldierlike fashion. If you charge them with the bayonet, they drift away-still shooting- and follow you when you return to your original position. Eventually your lines are in tatters. Then suddenly, out of the smoke, comes a howling, trampling, caterwauling rush of battalion columns, the bayonets and bull-weight of twelve fresh men against every yard of your exhausted line (which was only three deep when the action began) at their chosen point of impact.'

Originally Posted by Randall Turner

It's true they're not depicted accurately. But it's that they're underpowered, not OP. (grande bande units, not skirmisher chains.) I'm more interested in historical accuracy than MP balance. Elting and co:

http://www.napoleon-series.org/milit...c_tactics.html

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

...

This could have been the comment of a Prussian officer at Jena fifteen years later. The émigré journalist Maller du Pan made a simple observation, as snide as it was accurate, on the French employment of tirailleurs en grande bandes

'Tactical plans are a pure waste of time against a vast scum of floating irregular troops whose true force consists of their impetuous torrent.'

John Elting is even more succinct

'Prussian, Austrian, Spanish, Piedmantese, Neapolitan, and English generals did their professional best and eventually found that some vulgarian of a French ex-sergeant, whom they had completely outmaneuvered, would fail to recognize the hopelessness of his situation, or that a recent captain of French artillery would show a shocking disregard for the accepted system of strategy and tactics. Thereupon another military masterpiece would degenerate into a knock-down-drag-out grudge fight.

Put yourself in their place. Swarms of skirmishers have enveloped your tight, strictly dressed formations, firing from behind cover in a most unsoldierlike fashion. If you charge them with the bayonet, they drift away-still shooting- and follow you when you return to your original position. Eventually your lines are in tatters. Then suddenly, out of the smoke, comes a howling, trampling, caterwauling rush of battalion columns, the bayonets and bull-weight of twelve fresh men against every yard of your exhausted line (which was only three deep when the action began) at their chosen point of impact.'

I guess my comment is on the historical accuracy that I attempt to gain during MP with rules, which no one ever seems to buy

Originally Posted by Soveriegn

I guess my comment is on the historical accuracy that I attempt to gain during MP with rules, which no one ever seems to buy

Both historical accuracy and balance? I think you almost have to play pre-designed games with friends, that's tough. Or maybe some MP specific mod that both players can settle on? <shrug> Will that cause connection issues in NTW? dunno.

Originally Posted by Randall Turner

Both historical accuracy and balance? I think you almost have to play pre-designed games with friends, that's tough. Or maybe some MP specific mod that both players can settle on? <shrug> Will that cause connection issues in NTW? dunno.

Frankly I just want people to think about what they're doing (shocking I know)-balance is something I have never really expected from any CA game, pretty much its simple-pick an army that isn't heavily reliant on ranged troops and I'll be happy

When you speak of Light infantry are you talking about Light infantry French Chasseur battalions or voltiques? If they are the light infantry Chasseurs then basically these men as the war grew on had very little differences between them and line infantry and should be at the same size as line infantry. The only real difference between these formations after the deaths of all the veterans in the French army was the Spirit de Corps( I hope I spelled that right).

What grenades for grenadiers during Napoleonic wars? this is an historical inaccuary, and why are grenadiers regiment smaller than regular line infantry? Their availability should be less and expensive. I hope this game isn't going to turn out lol.

Line Inf and Elite Inf have a longer shooting range so bigger light inf and riflemen are ok

and the arty in NTW are superb and cav as well

Originally Posted by Bricommander

Line Inf and Elite Inf have a longer shooting range so bigger light inf and riflemen are ok

and the arty in NTW are superb and cav as well

even if the range was only 10 more than line it isnt right

it would encourage more rifles when what we want is less

Sometimes French grenadiers were formed into separate battalions so I suppose it's ok as long as their number is limited. As mentioned somewhere above the French light infantry battalions (infanterie legere) were mostly no different tactically than line infantry, just wore different uniforms ,so their role should be strictly limited.Light companies of line battalions were the main skirmishers in most armies.

Originally Posted by HellFell

We've seen from the videos that the number of soldiers in grenadiers and light infantry units are 120 for 'ultra' scale (90 for large).

I guess this is a quite awesome balance change because they will become potent units and worth having in the battlefield. Grenadiers were too small and required micromanagement but in NTW they will be a full alternative to line infantry with their superb melee and grenades.

And light infantry being 120 men per unit makes them more useful because as far I know (from the videos) the riflemen are still 80 (or even smaller)

I do superrediculousanalbleed scale of 1.5 in scripts (240 men per unit) its nice. my point being you can make your numbers anything you want by editing the scripts so dont worry about numbers

Originally Posted by HellFell

We've seen from the videos that the number of soldiers in grenadiers and light infantry units are 120 for 'ultra' scale (90 for large).

I guess this is a quite awesome balance change because they will become potent units and worth having in the battlefield. Grenadiers were too small and required micromanagement but in NTW they will be a full alternative to line infantry with their superb melee and grenades.

And light infantry being 120 men per unit makes them more useful because as far I know (from the videos) the riflemen are still 80 (or even smaller)

Sounds great but grenadiers were already very powerful and if they still have unlimited grenades they will be op. and light infantry will be op with 120 guys, no question.