A case for Angmar

[Irish guy]

I've always held the opinion that Angmar should be included in this mod and now, especially with a buffed up Eriador/Arnor on the way I think it realy is a no brainer. Please do not talk about Divide and Conquer, this relates to Vanilla.

Compare the west of the Misty Mountains to the East.
___________________________________________________________________
West:

High Elves - Good Orcs of the Misty Mountains - Evil
Dwarves - Good (Maybe) Isengard - Evil
Eriador - Good

___________________________________________________________________

East:

Rohan - Good Mordor - Evil
Gondor - Good Harad - Evil
Silvan Elves - Good Rhun - Evil
Dwarves - Good Dol Guldur - Evil (Counting it seperate from Mordor)
Dale - Good (Maybe) Isengard - Evil
___________________________________________________________________

As can be seen things in the West are pretty easy going for the good factions compared to the East. I tried playing the High Elves and found myself very bored very fast. And with the Dwarves I was completely uninterested in my Western Colonies.

Another problem is that Western factions such as the High Elves or Eriador can be pretty much boxed in by other good factions with nowhere to expand without dividing their territories.

A new Angmar faction would bring new interest to the Western playing area as well as making it more challenging but also balanced so that OOTM doesnt get squished in every campaign. But if not as a new faction at least give the territory over to Mordor though I imagine that would cause weirdness with Mordor marching stacks across the lands between.


Faction Proposal:
Units
Low Tier:

Bandits - Gangs of criminals and ruffians who have fallen under the control of Angmar and are now manipulated into doing Angmars bidding unknowingly. Armed with a crude sword and wood shield.

Orc Hunters - Equiped with a crude bow and sword, these orcs hunt for more than mere animals.

Goblin Snaga - Ragged Goblin slaves equiped with crude throwing spears, small wodden shields and scimitars.

Goblin Infantry - Basic Infantry unit armed with a spear and shield.

Mid Tier:Orc Brutes - Powerfull orcs armed with great axes and wearing a heavy mail hauberk.

Orc Spear Infantry - A step up from Goblin Infantry, these Orcs form the mainstay of Angmars army.

Warg Riders - Goblin Warg riders equiped with throwing spears and scimitars. Best suited for skirmishing with slower infantry or chasing down fleeing foes.

Angmarim Company - Wildmen of Angmar who have been threatened, enticed, or simply enslaved into millitary service. They wield terrifying black greatswords and wear Dark Red and black robes over a heavy mail coat.

High Tier:

War trolls - Like other trolls of Middle Earth, these beast's are a terrible foe. These trolls of Angmar have been given great clubs and mace's to wield as well as intimidating helms and jagged armor. (Olog Hai of Angmar I supose)

Iron Crown Guards - These Uruk's are some of the deadliest of Angmars minions. Wearing black plate armour and wielding vicious swords and great steel shields these elite units are assigned to garrison Carn Dum itself.

Iron Crown Archers - Uruk's wielding great black bow's and wearing black plate armour. They see to the defense of Carn Dum.

Iron Crown Pikes - Elite Uruk's wielding long pikes and wearing black plate armor. Well trained in fighting cavalry.

Iron Throne - (10 men) In times of old these men guarded the throne room of the Witch King. Now, with the refounding of Angmar the guard has been reformed. Shrouded in darkness the true identity of these men is unknown. (lots of hit points, scares enemies etc...)

Iron Throne Bodyguard - The Iron Throne company would often accompany their master into the field of battle. Driven by their master they become yet more powerfull.



Leader at start:

This idea is taken from The Lord of the Ring's Online.

Mordirith, Steward of Angmar.

He is actually Earnur, the last king of Gondor. Fallen, corrupted and wraithlike his will is given over to the Witch King whom he serves loyally as Steward of Angmar.


Please give your thoughts, and please consider this suggestion. I honestly think it would improve the game.

[Venia]

Angmar existed TA 1300 - TA 1975
but if you want it set up a modteam

[Muffer Nl]

[*Ranger*]

I can see where your coming from, and i agree. But i would suggest that angmar only appears if Anor reforms. Though i doubt i would want it in the vannila mod, i would prefer it to be a sub mod

[Jean=A=Luc]

But i would suggest that angmar only appears if Anor reforms.

Aragorn: We have restored Arnor and given rise to the new Reunited Kingdom, oh the epicness of it all!

Random soldier: My King, by restoring Arnor we have also inadvertently restored Angmar, we're neck deep in Orcs.

Aragorn: -,-

[Kane's Hand]

Aragorn: We have restored Arnor and given rise to the new Reunited Kingdom, oh the epicness of it all!

Random soldier: My King, by restoring Arnor we have also inadvertently restored Angmar, we're neck deep in Orcs.

Aragorn: -,-

[Beregond]

Low tier are OK, mid tier as well with the exeption of Angmarim Company, high tier is based on old Angmar, non-existant during this mod's timeframe

but I agree that some North Evil should be added. smth like North Goblin Tribes

[7UKMatt]

If Angmar was in the game, they would have to have an unbreakable alliance with Mordor. The OMM and Isengard would need to be weakened, too. It's difficult enough for the "good" factions, as it is. Broadly, I'm opposed to the idea.

[Beregond]

difficult in the south, yes.

but in the North Dwarves just pwn everything...wait for the reworked Eriador and don't forget High Elves...

[Hermes Trismegistos]

For gameplay reasons I always felt that a new evil faction in the north would be good. Perhaps a "Northern Orcs"-faction with some remnants of Angmar and some Gundabad-related units would be lorewise better than a pure Angmar.

But I still hope that Eriador won't be "buffed up" with the rework but weakened (strict AOR, better units like Dunedain very low in numbers etc.) and forced to concentrate on defence. By the time the good Arnor units become available the enemy should already have a head start and your army won't transform magically into all-Arnor so in the beginning you will still have to rely on your old Eriador units and it should still be a challenge.

[Muffer Nl]

That's what DG wanted it to be.

[Drathmar]

I Definitely agree there should be something there. One... it would take pressure off of Isengard... which at the moment is attacked by HE, Eriador and Rohan at the same time... and it would take pressure off of OotMM which are attacked by HE, Dwarves, and SE (the three most OP factions in the game) at the same time. The dwarves especially have no other real enemies, and SE can concentrate on them pretty easily.

Angmar is again Lore ya but some people on here don't realize that because in LOTR: Online, they have Angmar as the main enemy, and the game is set during the same time line as the journey of the fellowship (hell during the original game, playing through the story missions you see off the fellowship from Rivendell.)

However, I am not sure Angmar would be appropriate Lore wise, but there has to be some kind of forces left (like the wildmen who fight rohan, plus orc tribes similar to OotMM).

Or, since we already went completely awry from lore in that area with Eriador being a faction, it could be a re-emergent Angmar there to challenge the North. (re-emergent as in not the old Angmar but one that comes from a servant of Mordor arriving and whipping the forces there into shape, something similar to Eriador but for Evil).

[Lordinquisitor]

Angmar is again Lore ya but some people on here don't realize that because in LOTR: Online, they have Angmar as the main enemy, and the game is set during the same time line as the journey of the fellowship (hell during the original game, playing through the story missions you see off the fellowship from Rivendell.)

So what?

Anyway, here is my opinion:

Instead of creating an angmar faction, you could...

1. Give the OOTM enough power to fight multiple enemies at once.
2. Split them into southern and northern OOTM.
3. Make Dunland a faction on its own.

[Drathmar]

So what?

Anyway, here is my opinion:

Instead of creating an angmar faction, you could...

1. Give the OOTM enough power to fight multiple enemies at once.
2. Split them into southern and northern OOTM.
3. Make Dunland a faction on its own.

I was just pointing out a possible reason for a few people here (OP mainly) suggesting a full fledged Angamr faction in this time line.

1.) Which would make them too powerful overall. If they are powerful enough to take multiple enemies at once... once they eliminate an enemy they then pretty much win. On the other hand though, this could be a tactic for other evil players. As Morder concentrate on the SE, and once they are gone OotMM become much more powerful, making evil sides chances greater. So, Possible but not a great solution.

2.) The factions would be too similar is the major downfall here. Plus, whats the difference between this and just giving them the Northern rebel territories in that area?

3.) Ehh, it would compete to much with Isengard and make them weaker, giving Isengard less territory to expand into which is something Isengard definitely needs. Also makes it to easy to box in one or the other.



Reason for different northern Evil faction:

1.) It would use the Northern Territories that start as rebels, not taking away from any other factions starting position and only slightly weakening the dwarven/OotMM early game. OotMM will have to concentrate on the east more now for expansion, and same with dwarves, and it would give dwarves more reason to push towards Rhun as well instead of concentrating on taking western rebel settlements.

2.) Gives Dwarves a slightly harder game. This is needed as right now, in most campaigns I play, Dwarves are still taking the whole top of the map and being one of the strongest factions almost all the time.

3.) It would strengthen OotMM by making it so HE and Dwarves have to also focus on this new faction, and not just their own. Dwarves especially in this case.

4.) Creates a better game in the western half of the map, especially if playing with something like good vs evil, and even in Vanilla where its rare the good factions go to war.

Just read a synopsis of RotK... where it mentioned the Shire was controlled by Corrupted Men and Lotho... backed by "Sharky" aka Saruman... you could use this information to make a somewhat lore faithful evil faction in the north... using Lotho as the faction leader (or make it an emergent faction since it didn't happen till after the start of TATW.)

[karsten]

my idea would be:

1)take off isengard and give it back to the good guys
2)restore angmar
3)divide eriador in 3 (arthedain, cardolan, and the evil rudhaur (it fought against the other 2 after being dominated by angmar)
4)enjoy

[moizzz]

[QUOTE=karsten;6758871]my idea would be:

1)take off isengard and give it back to the good guys

you want to remove isengard? screw it, remove mordor aswell in the process!

Edit: Failed in quoting :S

[Dea Paladin]

take off isengard and give it back to the good guys

No offence but... Thats the stupidest thing ive ever heard!

[Irish guy]

Im aware Angmar is not lore acurate for this time period. But it makes sense for gameplay reasons. Just as having an Eriador faction does. Things are too easy for the West and a new faction is always interesting no? Things are boring as hell West of the MM.

[Wolster]

Alternatively, if there is the potential for Arnor to be reborn through Eriador faction.

Why couldn't there be a Carn Dum / Gundabad faction which if it meets the correct conditions has the chance to turn into Angmar faction with new units.

Yes i no its more of a stretch for lore snobs, as Eriador has settlements already in existance which used to be part of the old Kingdom & soldiers from Arnor as well (in the form of the Rangers).

But Tolkien writes very little about the Angmar area during this part of the 3rd age, so lets face it no one really knows whats happening there, & agents of the dark lord are likely to be in any area working on local sympathies to restore greater power to the Dark Lord (in the form of a re-establishment of Angmar).

Alternatively the Northern Dul-Guldor possession of vanilla Mordor could form the power base of the new faction accompanied by just Carn-Dum for example, would make for an enjoyable faction straddled either side of the OOTMM.

[Michael X]

Well, despite popular EA-I want to make money-reference Angmar, did not quite... erm... exist at the time, so no. I see your good faith though and I congratulate it.