Them damn Elveses

[Drathmar]

So.. In my Mordor campaign, in the south... I am doing good on RR/RC. I built up for about the first 40-50 turns, and launched my invasion of gondor recently. Cair Andros and W.Osgiliath fell quickly, and soon after Minas Tirith fell as well (attacked with a small army to draw out the garrison... I held all 3 forts around it, so I used them to break the garrison script army then siege Minas Tirith and take it.) I have 7 of the 9 leading the war there... and I can fight armies up to 3x the size of mine (with mostly orc raiders/orc archer/scouts in mine still... no trolls yet except for one unit of catapult in assault on MT) and easily win vs gondor... though I noticed the gondor infantry they have recently started producing is much harder than the spearmen and other beginning units, but still pretty easy especially when 2 nazgul together can route half a stack of gondor troops.


However... the war in the north... is going bad. Despite multiple invasions into elven territory, I have been unable to to make headway. Even with an army of only uruk halberds and uruk/orc archers... fighting an elven army of mostly light archers/sentinels/wardens... with the Witch King leading it... and them being fairly even in ratio. I lost... I destroyed 80% of their army but I lost... are they really just that much better than gondor that even armies I lose now where I would get heroic victory after heroic victory agaisnt gondor? Also... the nazgul are much less effective as they seem to lose 2-3 men every single volley from a single sentinel unit.

Anyone have any tips for fighting the Silvan Elves as Mordor? I have managed to hold Ost-In-Gil and Dol Goldur so far but its looking bleak. I have about 15 more turns till I can recruit my first troll unit (seriously... 20 turns from building troll cages till first troll.. makes me sad... barracks event on .) Do I just have to wait for trolls and use them... or is there some strategy I should be using?

[trueblaze]

For Mordor, trolls are the only unit that can go toe to toe with an elf and hope to win. Elven units are far more powerful than any orc unit(infact they're only second in h2h to dwarves) so going 1 for 1 is a bad idea. The best thing to do would be to use cheap units to hit the elves from the front while using your heavier units to flank and hit them from behind and pray for a route. Use your nazgol/s to hit their ranged units(and maybe a troll or two) but beware their elite spearmen, they can wipe out your calvary without hardly a lose. As well, avoid ranged battles as only Uruk archers can hope match them for range and killing power.

During siege defences avoid fighting them on the walls at all costs. Too few units can fight at a time, thus negating orcs numerical superiority, and instead place a cheep unit on the wall to hold them in place and once they climb up pepper them with arrows from a unit on the ground, OR place trolls on the wall as they can slaughter even dwarves on wall combat. As well, beware elven archers sitting on the walls as their longest ranged ones can fire on your units on the inside walls while standing on the outside walls (found this out the hard way).

Other than that I'd say the best way to bet the elves is to use the orc's greatest strength: Numbers. Always try to have one and a half to two full stacks (or even three) side by side so that even if you take a lot of losses your backup stack can finish them off.

[Drathmar]

I have tried using the Nazgul to take out ranged units... but they lose 5-6 men before they can even reach them most times... and even with the witch kings guard (32 men on normal size) that is a significant amount.

I will try and use the cheaper troops (orc raiders) to hold them while using maulers and uruks to attack flanks and back... I am just finding it difficult to fight them as unlike gondor you can't use the nazgul to just rape a whole army.

As for sieges... I actually found maulers/uruk halberds do a decent job at fighting elves on the wall... especially if you have archer support to weaken them as they approach.

time to just start pumping out units instead of using small armies to support nazgul lol.

[Jean=A=Luc]

As for sieges... I actually found maulers/uruk halberds do a decent job at fighting elves on the wall... especially if you have archer support to weaken them as they approach.

He probably meant when you're the attacker.

You could try using loose formations to take less casualties from arrows. You could even charge your Nazgul in loose formation.

Send some "loose" Orc Bands first to start absorbing arrows and charge while the archers are busy.

[Drathmar]

I did charge with loose formation nazgul... and I still lose at least 2 per volley even in loose formation vs the archers. I'll try the orc band thing however. Its jsut kind frustrating after being able to steam roll gondors armies, though I enjoy the challenge... I just haven't won a field battle against the elves yet.

[Muffer Nl]

ANTI ELVEN SQUAD!!!

[Ahlerich]

with the current strenght of the elves the statement that the time of elves is over is a understatement

in the early builds the evil side was way more powerful now it seems to be the other way around.

in my isengard campaign the evil side launched several invasions on east osiligath and cant even get that

[MAMO72]

You! Evil rabble! You will not have any chance against the Eleven Power! Your end was inexorably decided from the Supreme Illuvatar thousands years ago. You have no possibilities to survive again...

[Muffer Nl]

Simply turn on your webcam and undress. The Elves, gay as they are, will stop fighting to look at you so you can stab them in the back...

[Baron Samedi]

Simply turn on your webcam and undress. The Elves, gay as they are, will stop fighting to look at you so you can stab them in the back...

Don't start this into a fight!

[mattgoby]

im gonna have to get all lore on u now trolls are a copy of ents but not as good and orcs are a copy off elves and nots as good

also invasions on osgiliath never work when ai controlled they just dont understand the 2 cities being together but it does tie up my bloody troops

[MAMO72]

Simply turn on your webcam and undress. The Elves, gay as they are, will stop fighting to look at you so you can stab them in the back...

Oooohhhhh Darling! that's exactly what we want!!! it seems you know very well what a gay likes!!!

[Vifarc]

Even with an army of only uruk halberds and uruk/orc archers... fighting an elven army of mostly light archers/sentinels/wardens... with the Witch King leading it... and them being fairly even in ratio. I lost... I destroyed 80% of their army but I lost...

Without trolls, you can't beat elves one vs one: Send 3 stacks against an elf army to be almost sure.

Anyone have any tips for fighting the Silvan Elves as Mordor?

Send skirmishers firing in the front, then when they are aimed by the elves, send simple warriors hurry on the sides (without going through arrowed skirmishers). When (if??) the contact is done, send your elite where it is the easier: You must beat the elve bit by bit. When a elve unit flee, follow it with your weakest near warrior: If not they will rally. Try to make your general near your troops, without engaging him (or just if it is easy): He must not die!, or you will loose.

[trueblaze]

Another bit of advice would be to not bring the fight to the elves until you've delt with both Gondor and Rohan, thus you can then devote your entire resources to fighting that battle. Until then just defend your borders the best you can.

Don't forget as well, in RC/RR Elves have a VERY slow unit regeneration unlike Mordor. Thus while you may take many losses in a battle, once you destroy their one or two primary stacks it should take them a while to rebuild new units. Mean while Mordor can produce orcs much faster, thus the Zap Branagen aproach to battle will work nicely

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Zap Branagen aproach: "I knew the kill bots weakness. You see they are programed to shut down after a certain number of kills. There for I through wave after wave of my own men against them until they all shut down."

[Point Blank]

Elves have either a high morale plus usually high chivalry generals, or lock_morale, so Nazgul Terror effect is much less effective versus Elves.

[Drathmar]

Gondor is Dead, Rohan isn't doing so hot either, and I haven't gone to war with them at all. Though it was like... gondor died... easy mode over.

The elves also might already have overwhelming force.... I've already seen 3 different stacks that include galadhrim swordsman/spears/archer... and it takes like half an army of units just to take one of those units out... and they have almost full stacks supporting them plus sindar archer generals. I am sending 3 full stacks led by nazgul at them now though so will see how that works... the witch king is fighting them guerrilla style... trying to hit small stacks, break them completely then retreat before fighting the main army (as the small stacks are usually there as reinforcements/mains)

I was able to kill one general and a fairly sizable army though by waiting at the edge of the map as they came on as reinforcements. Maybe I should try and create that situation again.

[Muffer Nl]

-,-
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=705

[MAMO72]

-,-
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=705

the second picture is simply wonderful... but is a gay club?

[Mithrandir]

When dealing with Elves, keep in mind that a large chunk of their defense comes from the Defensive Skill stat, which is useless when they're attacked from behind.

[Vifarc]

When dealing with Elves, keep in mind that a large chunk of their defense comes from the Defensive Skill stat, which is useless when they're attacked from behind.

Right. Useless against missiles too. That's why as Silvan I hate those orc skirmishers, even when I overshoot them.