Should guns be allowed?

[karamazovmm]

The title says it all, why there is a need for guns?

Rule please keep it civil, and please keep it only on the civilian focus of the things, not military.

[Big War Bird]

For you, no.

For me, yes.

The reason being that I don't trust you.

[pchalk]

rnt there threads on this already?

[Boyar Son]

you can't ban guns and expect it to be off the streets. let the people own them, be it for the range or for home defense. it's not like cops can get to you faster than you grabbing your weapon.

[karamazovmm]

The probability is that you along being robbed is ending up dead. I have always wondered what feels like to live in a country like Canada

[Boyar Son]

The probability is that you along being robbed is ending up dead.

not if you had a weapon in the first place. anti gun owners can afford to be anti gun after all, they live in a safe suburb.

also, what source says that probability?

[Mr. Scott]

The probability is that you along being robbed is ending up dead. I have always wondered what feels like to live in a country like Canada

It feels cold.

[karamazovmm]

I don't know if you take a look at where I live, Brazil, there is no such things as suburbs as you have in the US, in here we deal with the violence generated by guns every corner, since the main excuse for criminality is the fact that you're without resources to maintain itself then you resort to violence, the thing is were they live is usually controled by factions of drug dealers, and those things my friend are scattered around the town. I have been robbed 2 times already, and I still give you the warning not to respond to violence.

The source? take a look at whatever site that you want that is not with a rightist approach and you will find numerous reports about it. There was a governmental study about it, to warn the population about the carrying gun issue.

And do read the article that I posted about resource wars in the political academy. the type of violence generated by the power that the gun gives you, and the kind of screw up situations you can get into

[El Brujo]

Brazil is dangerous because not because of guns, but because it's a banana republic, albeit a huge and wealthy one. America is getting there.

[Boyar Son]

I don't know if you take a look at where I live, Brazil, there is no such things as suburbs as you have in the US, in here we deal with the violence generated by guns every corner, since the main excuse for criminality is the fact that you're without resources to maintain itself then you resort to violence, the thing is were they live is usually controled by factions of drug dealers, and those things my friend are scattered around the town. I have been robbed 2 times already, and I still give you the warning not to respond to violence.

The source? take a look at whatever site that you want that is not with a rightist approach and you will find numerous reports about it. There was a governmental study about it, to warn the population about the carrying gun issue.

And do read the article that I posted about resource wars in the political academy. the type of violence generated by the power that the gun gives you, and the kind of screw up situations you can get into

I've been to brazil. a few people i know there own a weapon, secretly. it may be illegal mostly but it didn't stop those i know from getting one.

[Wolfgang von Zweibrücken]

I don't know if you take a look at where I live, Brazil, there is no such things as suburbs as you have in the US, in here we deal with the violence generated by guns every corner, since the main excuse for criminality is the fact that you're without resources to maintain itself then you resort to violence, the thing is were they live is usually controled by factions of drug dealers, and those things my friend are scattered around the town. I have been robbed 2 times already, and I still give you the warning not to respond to violence.

The source? take a look at whatever site that you want that is not with a rightist approach and you will find numerous reports about it. There was a governmental study about it, to warn the population about the carrying gun issue.

And do read the article that I posted about resource wars in the political academy. the type of violence generated by the power that the gun gives you, and the kind of screw up situations you can get into

A third world country like Brazil is different. There are very few neighborhoods in America that are controlled by armed factions of drug dealers, and for the most part if someone commits a petty crime, like mugging, it's just one guy, not a member of some semi-militia group.

Obviously, having a handgun when you are accosted by three guys with assault rifles is of limited usefulness. But having a handgun when accosted by three guys with knives is a different story. I can't speculate on your situation, but I know that if I lived somewhere controlled by militias I would rather have a gun, in case they come after something you are not willing to give up - like a girlfriend or sister - rather than be completely at the mercy of anyone stronger than me.

[karamazovmm]

v

[pchalk]

yea no number of statistics will count really as evidence. i did a paper on this subject and u find statistics that compliment either side of the argument. having said that most of them are against gun control

[karamazovmm]

its really easy to manipulate statistics, as well as a debate, it doesn't mean that both have more or less validity themselves. The thing with statistics is how do you interpret what is there, this as you probably know is the issue, although here are some statistical trickery that can be done.

I support that the countries should have guns control, or at least a rigid system for this. When you take out guns from the streets, meaning gun control the murder and robbery rate tends to decline, as it happened in here. There are no more a legal way for the perpetrator find a gun, there is only the unlawful way, meaning that some of those killlings that happened in the schools or public places could have been avoided, most of those peoples are the ones that can and will buy weapons from store, not the black market.

And even then we would have a reduction in guns overall across the board since now they can't get into your place and discover a gun and rob it, with the black market saturated the guns would reach a new high in prices meaning that most of the crimes for people without money would be "lighter" in the sense that it should provide a more difficult avenue to perpetrate it and to cause harm with it.

[El Brujo]

I support that the countries should have guns control, or at least a rigid system for this. When you take out guns from the streets, meaning gun control the murder and robbery rate tends to decline, as it happened in here. There are no more a legal way for the perpetrator find a gun, there is only the unlawful way, meaning that some of those killlings that happened in the schools or public places could have been avoided, most of those peoples are the ones that can and will buy weapons from store, not the black market.

The killings at schools and such are statistical outliers, even if you eliminate them it won't effect crime rates.

[pchalk]

its really easy to manipulate statistics, as well as a debate, it doesn't mean that both have more or less validity themselves. The thing with statistics is how do you interpret what is there, this as you probably know is the issue, although here are some statistical trickery that can be done.

I support that the countries should have guns control, or at least a rigid system for this. When you take out guns from the streets, meaning gun control the murder and robbery rate tends to decline, as it happened in here.

this is part of the statistical trickery u were talking about. im sure ur not doing it on purpose but ur assuming crime rate declined because of gun control. as i said statistics in different situations exist confirming both sides. these trends are separate as and are likely due to fluctuations in economic and social conditions

There are no more a legal way for the perpetrator find a gun, there is only the unlawful way, meaning that some of those killlings that happened in the schools or public places could have been avoided, most of those peoples are the ones that can and will buy weapons from store, not the black market.

its important to remember that even people who would normally obey the law and have no violent intentions (someone like myself were i stuck in a gun control situation) will still own firearms. shootings will still happen. they are also much rarer than the day to day violent crime. they just get more press

And even then we would have a reduction in guns overall across the board since now they can't get into your place and discover a gun and rob it, with the black market saturated the guns would reach a new high in prices meaning that most of the crimes for people without money would be "lighter" in the sense that it should provide a more difficult avenue to perpetrate it and to cause harm with it.

bringing country with a right to bear arms into total gun control will flood the black market with firearms. all those once legal arms get sold if they are not destroyed in a very costly process. i believe this was true when Australia enacted gun control. arms also make their way to black market when governments lose money or replace older models. this is independent of civilian gun control.

even you admit that it wont eliminate all guns from civilian populations. criminals still would have them even if for some reason it would be less of them. these laws would only serve to criminalize those who carry weapons to defend themselves

[Surgeon]

There isn't a NEED for guns. You have to phrase the question more precisely.

[karamazovmm]

sorry but no can do, since this would demonstrate a tendency towards something. not that I'm favorable to guns at all

[Angrychris]

Its harder to buy an 8th of weed then it is to buy a gun. Laws arent meant to make sense only profit. Financial or social profit.

[karamazovmm]

bringing country with a right to bear arms into total gun control will flood the black market with firearms

Could be a possibility, but I'm based in what happened here in my country, there was a drastic drop in murders. You do realize that there are crimes of passion, and these are not few. It's not that all people should ban guns (although I support it), it's that the quality of the sales and the method behind it are flawed, in a very harmful way. Its not again that I want a perfect society, its just that when there are flaws this big we need at least a reform, hence my op, it was implied that guns control should need at least a reform.

The current situation is just too worrisome.

And I'm not entering in the realm of domestic accident in here.

I'm not ghandi, I know 3 different martial arts, but never used it to attack someone, and I never have reacted in the cases of the robberies, since that would have led me to a very unpleasant situation