TWC History Project (nominations?)

[Belisarius]

Passed

The Curia recognizes that the history of TWC is a social experiment which could teach individuals valuable real life lessons in how different types of administration governed the TWC community. The Curia also recognizes that the sites history is being buried and should be preserved for later Civitates and staff members to read and appreciate.

Thus the Curia asks that the TWC’s Living History Forum be moved to accompany the Curia and Symposium in the Capitol. The forum is to be given to one Civitates, who will be chosen nomination and election to start a group with permissions in the forum, dedicated to salvaging and documenting as much of TWC’s history as possible. When the Head Historian resigns another election is carried out.

We need a nominations thread, or we can use this thread. Make sure whoever you nominate wants the job.

[Legio]

i nominate belisarius

[Nazgûl Killer]

Question: Don't you need moderator powers to be a Historian? I mean, in order to move a thread from one place to another and so on?

[Belisarius]

In the area, but you can just link external threads and ask hex for certain threads. Or the Curator.

[Legio]

Or give this usergroup local moderation powers?

[Gaius Baltar]

I am familiar with the material and offer my services to organize and restore the blessed archives. Time has been hard to her hallways, with years of neglect and failure to make repairs to the heavily edited files evident to all except the most naive observer.

If entrusted with this distinguished responsibility, I will personally see that the material is given the just treatment it deserves.

GB

[Belisarius]

Oh I accept my Nomination btw

[Belisarius]

Oh and I nominate Justinian.

[John Wayne]

Oh and I nominate Justinian.

Seconded.

[Gaius Baltar]

Oh and I nominate Justinian.

I would just like to point out that since neither of you are displaying the "Civitate" badge, neither is eligible for the position as outlined in the CVRIAL Decision.

[Justinian]

Thanks guys, I accept my nomination

[Belisarius]

Are you saying we are not Civitates?

The forum is to be given to one Civitates

It does not say

The forum is to be given to one member who is displaying the badge of Civitates

Furthermore, no matter what position you hold, you are always a Civitates.

[Gaius Baltar]

Im quoting Spiff here;

Its not a question of the forums location, its that this decision has created a new electable position which is completely out of step with all the other elected positions. Even the wording of the decision doesnt make complete sense:

"The forum is to be given to one Civitates, who will be chosen nomination and election to start a group with permissions in the forum, dedicated to salvaging and documenting as much of TWC’s history as possible."

I dont understand the underlined bit at all - and I can only assume the intention was to say Citizen rather than Civitate, but as it stands this decision excludes anyone displaying any badge but the civitate one (ie citizen, artifex etc)

If this is completely separate from the constitution then it needs to say within itself exactly what all these different terms mean - "nomination", "election", "permissions" and "group" are completely undefined.

[Belisarius]

Thats Spiffs opinion, its not outlined in the the proposal. Everyone is entitled to interpret things how they like.

I understand it as one Civitates, we are all Civitates. I am one, Garbarsardar is one, Justinian is one. I think I have an idea as to what it means since I wrote it and proposed it. In addition 2/3 of Citizens would not have voted for something excluding any Civitates without the Civitates Badge. Also, I think Spiffs post came late as I would have replied to it and maybe clarified the wording if I had seen it.


Edit - The word By is missing, it could be a copy paste mistake when I transferred it or when spiff quoted it, I dont know my MS word version has By nomination and election.

Edit two -

The Position is not a permanent rank, its a project which was proposed at the same time as the forum magnum with me thinking that had no chance in passing, Gaius mentioned that moving it out of the capitol would help, but the curia does not run the capitol. The Curia does not run or moderate the Symposium nor does it have a say on Forum Magnum Projects once they are proposed. These are in the hands of the Civitates designated to run them and (in case of symposium) in the hands of staff. It was/is fully expected that one project leader will complete the project and might just update it from time to time and he/she will know the situation and thus when he/she retires then he/she will post the nomination thread and the Curia can select someone. I doubt this will happen.

[Gaius Baltar]

Language was from the original proposal.

One interpretation of the term "Civitate", is that a regular - nonstaff member would run the project.

I wasnt present for the debate and vote but certainly would noticed and questioned the wording (as pointed out by Spiff).

[Spiff]

As it stands the term "civitate" doesnt really mean anything at all - we are all "citizens" first and foremost - artifex and civitate are subcategories of that rank, applicable only when the relevant badge is shown. The fact that the wording in this decision specifically says civitate rather than citizen can only reasonably be interpreted as to suggest its intended to exclude anyone not representing themselves as a civitate - and the only way to do that currently is to display the appropriate badge.

The argument that people wouldn't have voted for this is speculative at best however, we cant simply assume a fact like that - you could quite equally say citizens wouldn't vote to pass a decision missing a crucial word like "by" but here we are regardless.

Either way, as you say this is just my opinion. It is presumably the Curator who decides things like this.

[Legio]

I think we should not nitpick about badges. Do you intend to go so far north that you end up going south? WE SHOULD BE FIGHTING THE DARKSPAWN. Worry about the archdemon. That is our goal. Not this endless trekking.

[Belisarius]

As it stands the term "civitate" doesnt really mean anything at all - we are all "citizens" first and foremost

I come from simpler times I guess, my wording was based on my assumption that Civitates stayed Civitates. This Citizen thing is news to me and it isnt the first time I got them mixed up.

crucial word like "by" but here we are regardless.

Im actually surprised I did not notice it, and noone else did. Isnt there some sort of bill allowing the Curiator to correct small mistakes?


I would have responded and edited the proposal If I had seen your post Spiff.

[Justinian]

I think the meaning of the proposal is pretty clear... "citizen" and "civitate" are used interchangeably by a lot of people.

By definition, the ranks of 'Civitate', 'Artifex' and 'Citizen' are all equal, and all members of above ranks in staff are first and foremost Citizens. Something cannot be restricted to one Citizen rank and not the other because they are all equal and all Citizens are technically able to display whatever badge they want.

[Spiff]

I think the meaning of the proposal is pretty clear... "citizen" and "civitate" are used interchangeably by a lot of people.

The problem is that what people may think a rule is doesn't have any bearing on what the rule actually is, Citizen and Civitate have not been interchangeable for over 3 years or something. Civitate has a clear definition, it is someone who chooses purposefully to be associated with the debating side of the site rather than the modding side by wearing the relevant badge

Imagine if this decision had said "Artifex" instead of civitate, it's exactly the same difference and causes the same problems.

By definition, the ranks of 'Civitate', 'Artifex' and 'Citizen' are all equal, and all members of above ranks in staff are first and foremost Citizens. Something cannot be restricted to one Citizen rank and not the other because they are all equal and all Citizens are technically able to display whatever badge they want.

Equal yes, but still different. Something can be restricted to one rank or another, it's exactly what a reasonable reading of this decision has done. We can all agree that it doesnt make sense to do so, but that doesnt change the fact that this decision has unintentionally tried to do it. It clearly says you have to be a civitate to be eligible, and the only way you can declare yourself a civitate is by wearing the appropriate badge - without the badge you are just a citizen under the constitution.

Thats just my problem with the word civitate though, since this is a decision and doesnt make any reference to the constitution, basically every procedure is left undefined.

Thus the Curia asks that the TWC’s Living History Forum be moved to accompany the Curia and Symposium in the Capitol. The forum is to be given to one Civitates, who will be chosen nomination and election to start a group with permissions in the forum, dedicated to salvaging and documenting as much of TWC’s history as possible. When the Head Historian resigns another election is carried out.

• How are members nominated, for how long are nominations to be allowed to take place?
• What process is used for the election?
• How big can this group be, does there always have to be a group, and what kind of permissions do they have - permission to view, post, edit, delete, move? Or all of these.
• Who is the head historian?

In principle I've got nothing against what I guess the intent of this decision is, but at the moment I cant see how a curator could reasonably enforce it. All I'm saying is that I think this decision should be either repealed or simply amended and clarified a great deal.