Gay Marriage

[aceking90]

This topic is about gay marrirege and the good parts about it and the bad parts about it.
Now to keep this from becoming a flame war over the bible say this and that, and church vs state, I am laying down some rules to stop that.
1. You can only say what are good or bad things about gay marrige, NO morales. You can't simply state that you like it or not, you have to say why.
2. You can not insult other people or accuse them of being racist or gay.
3. No slurs against eather side of the debate.
4. I can add new rules if I have to so please don't make me and keep it clean, OK.
5. I will not say which side of the debate I am on, so don't ask. I am a neutrale third party.
(I can't always keep track of what has happen here so I you could send messages about intersting quotes, I would be very apprecitive

[Arch-hereticK]

If marriage is defined as love between two consenting adults in live then I think they should have that privilage.

If marriage is defined as a vehicle for breeding and having children in a "stable" enviroment, then they don't meet the requirements (and neither to infertile people) and don't deserve the privilege.

I am currently undecided on the definition of marriage.

[aceking90]

That is exactly the kind of thing I want to hear on this thread.

[MaximiIian]

I am currently undecided on the definition of marriage.

And what about simply, a legal contract of incorporation between two or more consenting adults? Vague enough to allow for same-sex couples, opposite-sex couples, and polyamory.

EDIT: OP, if you're not allowed people to debate moral arguments for or against, then why did you post in the Ethics, Morals, and Religion subforum?

[aceking90]

EDIT: OP, if you're not allowed people to debate moral arguments for or against, then why did you post in the Ethics, Morals, and Religion subforum?

I don't want people just saying that it's wrong simply because it creeps them out, I want real reasons about why it is wrong, ways it could harm society at large.

[MaximiIian]

I don't want people just saying that it's wrong simply because it creeps them out, I want real reasons about why it is wrong, ways it could harm society at large.

And if people come up with moral arguments for gay marriage? It's arbitrary to allow one opinion to be expressed and not the other; and, like it or not, most people use ethics to determine the answers to difficult questions.

[aceking90]

And if people come up with moral arguments for gay marriage? It's arbitrary to allow one opinion to be expressed and not the other; and, like it or not, most people use ethics to determine the answers to difficult questions.

I don't care how you feel about gay marriage, and if some one use a purly moral argument for gay marriage I will tell them to stop it. Also people should not use pure ethics as a way to answer difficult questions, that is why I don't want to see that here. People need reasons for eather side.

[Fiyenyaa]

If marriage is defined as love between two consenting adults in live then I think they should have that privilage.

If marriage is defined as a vehicle for breeding and having children in a "stable" enviroment, then they don't meet the requirements (and neither to infertile people) and don't deserve the privilege.

I am currently undecided on the definition of marriage.

If you take your second definition, infertile couples, couples who are too old, or couples who simply don't plan to have kids don't get to be married.
It should be equal for all consenting adults, it doesn't matter about how or if they plan to have kids.

[Arch-hereticK]

And what about simply, a legal contract of incorporation between two or more consenting adults? Vague enough to allow for same-sex couples, opposite-sex couples, and polyamory.

Sure.

If you take your second definition, infertile couples, couples who are too old, or couples who simply don't plan to have kids don't get to be married.

I think you'll find that's exactly what I said.

It should be equal for all consenting adults, it doesn't matter about how or if they plan to have kids.

I'd like to agree, but as with all such questions it's the majority that decides what code they wish to enforce. But I don't see a majority decision in most places.

[Copperknickers II]

If marriage is defined as love between two consenting adults in live then I think they should have that privilage.

If marriage is defined as a vehicle for breeding and having children in a "stable" enviroment, then they don't meet the requirements (and neither to infertile people) and don't deserve the privilege.

I disagree. Gay couples can provide a perfectly stable environment for raising children. You do not need to be same-sex to 'breed', you can just have IVF or adoption.

[tonymurphy1888]

I think it socially and physically wrong it just wasent meant to happen plus seeing displays of homosexuality makes me uncomfortrable, however being that is a growing thing I try my best to tolerate and understand it.

[Fiyenyaa]

I think it socially and physically wrong it just wasent meant to happen plus seeing displays of homosexuality makes me uncomfortrable, however being that is a growing thing I try my best to tolerate and understand it.

Physically wrong? Homosexuality is prevalent in virtually all mammals (as well as other types of animals). Socially wrong? As you astutely point out, it is becoming increasingly accepted; not only that, the only disadvantage of being gay is peoples reactions to it - this will most likely continue to diminish.
I'm glad you feel that you should try and be tolerant - but laws aren't based on you being uncomfortable or not.

I'd like to agree, but as with all such questions it's the majority that decides what code they wish to enforce. But I don't see a majority decision in most places.

A good system of government does not rely on the tyranny of the majority - protections for minority rights are included. This is currently a right that isn't being extended to a certain minority, and that situation should be corrected.

[Arch-hereticK]

I disagree. Gay couples can provide a perfectly stable environment for raising children. You do not need to be same-sex to 'breed', you can just have IVF or adoption.

Yeah, in fact, according to statistics, lesbian couples are more likely to raise sons with signifigantly higher average incomes.

Sure, IVF procedures are usefull.

A good system of government does not rely on the tyranny of the majority - protections for minority rights are included. This is currently a right that isn't being extended to a certain minority, and that situation should be corrected.

The majority should want to protect the minority, if it doesn't then there is something wrong with that majority and should be convinced otherwise.

The social organism will adapt eventually.

[tonymurphy1888]

Physically wrong? Homosexuality is prevalent in virtually all mammals (as well as other types of animals). Socially wrong? As you astutely point out, it is becoming increasingly accepted; not only that, the only disadvantage of being gay is peoples reactions to it - this will most likely continue to diminish.
I'm glad you feel that you should try and be tolerant - but laws aren't based on you being uncomfortable or not.

A good system of government does not rely on the tyranny of the majority - protections for minority rights are included. This is currently a right that isn't being extended to a certain minority, and that situation should be corrected.

Hey man Its is physically wrong has no reproductive qualitys just because people enjoy it dosen't make it right and the only reason i'm accepting it is because i'm forced into it by not being considerd a communist or somthing, indecent exposure disagrees with your uncomfortable theory, just for the record i'm not some epic gay basher.

[Fiyenyaa]

Hey man Its is physically wrong has no reproductive qualitys just because people enjoy it dosen't make it right and the only reason i'm accepting it is because i'm forced into it by not being considerd a communist or somthing, indecent exposure disagrees with your uncomfortable theory, just for the record i'm not some epic gay basher.

It may not achieve reproduction - that doesn't make it physically wrong.
I think we've moved on from seeing having kids as the ultimate purpose of all existence.

[Phier]

It may not achieve reproduction - that doesn't make it physically wrong.
I think we've moved on from seeing having kids as the ultimate purpose of all existence.

Actually kids ARE the ultimate purpose of existence but you won't see that until you are a father.

That doesn't mean having sex for fun is morally wrong.

[tonymurphy1888]

It may not achieve reproduction - that doesn't make it physically wrong.
I think we've moved on from seeing having kids as the ultimate purpose of all existence.

Well other things make it physically wrong but lets not go into detail...

It may not be the ultimate purpose but it helps the survival of our race.

If it makes you feel better I could say "why wouldent we want to be graced with the children of "gay" men there just so interesting and diverse"

[Mr. Pink]

epic gay basher.

[Copperknickers II]

This topic is about gay marrirege and the good parts about it and the bad parts about it.
4. I can add new rules if I have to so please don't make me and keep it clean, OK.

Just because you start a thread, that does not mean everyone has to follow your rules. The admins are the only people who can impose rules. A thread is pointless if it is restricted: the conversation must be able to flow. Just a reminder.

And there are no bad points about gay marriages unless you are a Jew or Muslim, simple as that.

[aceking90]

Just because you start a thread, that does not mean everyone has to follow your rules. The admins are the only people who can impose rules. A thread is pointless if it is restricted: the conversation must be able to flow. Just a reminder.

These rules are just to keep a flame war from starting up, and if people start breaking them I will contact admins, who will then deal with it.