Selling regions on turn 1...

[NJGOAT]

I stumbled upon a neat little "trick" some time ago while playing Britain and have since used it succesfully in multiple campaigns. For all intents and purposes it really isn't a "trick" in that you are not doing anything underhanded more of a strategic short sale.

On your turn 1 all other nations have their starting capital intact. This seems to average about $10k per faction. There are a lot of tactics discussed where you sell technology to other nations, but I decided to take it one step further and sell territory. This tends to work very well if you have multiple colonial regions you want to consolidate to give a much needed cash injection and make it easier to defend more critical areas. It seems that $8k is the going rate for each territory. Any troops in the territory are automatically teleported to the closest friendly region when the region is sold (this is probably the only "gamey" part of the tactic). Here is how it has worked in a couple of my campaigns:

British: Sell Rupert's Land to the Huron for $8k. This eliminates the inevitable resource drain/losing effort that Rupert's Land represents when trying to defend it against the Huron.

French: Sell Montreal to Huron for $8k, sell Quebec to Iroquois for $8k, sell Acadia to 13 Colonies for $8k. It eliminates an entire theater of concern for France and let's you concentrate all your efforts in the Carribean. I tend to keep Newfoundland as it is easily defended with one sloop blocking the Inuit from crossing and can be a springboard for taking back Canada.

Spanish: Sell Flanders to the UP for $8k, or trade it ouright for Curacao. Sell Lombardy to Venice for $8k. Sell Naples to the Italian States for $8k. Sell Sardinia (or is it Corsica?) to Genoa for $8k. It is probably better to trade Flanders for Curacao to help complete the mission, though either scenario works well. By trading the fractured and spread out Habsburg holdings you can easily consolidate Spanish power where it matters and avoid a lot of costly wars.

The extra cash can fund a lot of development across your remaining territories and allow you to rapidly expand and modernize your starting armies. In most cases you will have a lot of trouble holding all the little far flung pieces together in the beginning anyway, so why let them be conquered when you can sell them and just take them back later?

[Jayzilla]

I've heard a lot of people saying that ruperts land will be inevitably attacked by the huron, but in my main campaign that I'm running, I haven't seen any military activity from the huron, and in fact managed to launch a surprise attack from there on New France, capturing it only for a few turns, but it was enough to give me the US colonies mission completion, putting the 13 under my control.

Still, that does sound like an interesting idea, that countries will gladly by territories on turn 1. Does this not work later on?

[NJGOAT]

I am sure it would work later on as well, but you have the problem of limited funds that may be available to the AI countries. The only time that you can guarantee that everyone has sufficient money in the piggy bank to give you a decent return is on turn 1.

I've played the British several times and it seems to be a coin flip on whether or not I keep Rupert's Land. However, I do generally find that as the British it makes the early game a lot easier to not have to invest money in building infrastructure and recruiting troops there. The $8k also goes a long way to maxing out the imporvements you can build in your territories.

The reason I find myself doing this more and more is that it is hard to justify the cost of improving most of these territories to the point where they give you a decent return versus getting the cash infusion upfront. For Spain this is a life saver and really changes the way their campaign plays out.

[Alf]

i generally change ruperts land for the nortwest territory of huron, exempt taxes for some turn (it wont give you any tax either way ) I acquire the port and safely trade furs in that region

anyways I always find it the easy for especially ottomans to sell territory. French gives you 10k for egypt only

anyways for ottomans i acquire a starting money of almost 60k by selling

egypt to france
palastine to barbary states
baghdad to mughals
armenia to georgia
serbia to poland
bosnia to austria
moldavia to venice



believe it or not this works perfectly by the year 1710 I am capable of fighting on both sides with georgia, austria, venice, poland, russia and in some cases persia... not to mention that once they start attacking I manage to take back all the regions back plus some more (morea, georgia, croatia,transylvania)

reason for this is:
to prevent war with britain or france as they need egypt and attack it soon.
to grab money from mughals who have no chance of building up an army in baghdad
let georgians build up the poorly developed armenia since it became a rich region once developed
make it easy to defend my western borders with bulgaria as a keep.
AI dont tend to attack athens for some reason, only venice does that when he thinks he got enough power...no they dont really
I move my army in moldadvia to crimea to help defend it before selling it, russia claims crimea anyway so best shot is to make it as later as possible.
jerusalem offers you nothing but an empty major city that would drain your sources. (only the observatory helps for scholars but no immediate need for them + you need to build up the no-income city first bah...easy to take it back from barbary states later anyway)

once I got janissary musketeers it is easy to go along anyway however i still have problems with maratha if i cant ally them :/


So I think I made my point: Sell regions you think are targets for major powers, dont sell them to major powers that is hostile to you as they tend to attack you even if you give them what they want. Sell strategically dont sell for the sake of money but think of relations and your future plans. Try to create conflicts by selling regions. eg. sell moldavia to venice so that russia cant border you or declare war against venice which is actually an ally of austria etc...

[MortenJessen]

Hi there NJGOAT.
I only have a few words. Selling regions off in turn one are quite stupid unless you can get something valuable out of the trade. And getting money is only a bad and cheap exploit. No, here is how to do it and get some REAL advantage from it: As Spain give Napels and Sicilian to Itali for becoming a Protectorate. And so on. There are many ways of getting a real advantage out of selling in turn one, but money; that is exploiting the AI.
Y.S.
M. Jessen

[NJGOAT]

I fail to see how getting cash out of the deal is exploitive of the AI. They have a region they want/need that you possess and you are simply giving it to them in exchange for money. I do need to state that this is not something I always do, it is situational and greatly depends on the goal of your campaign and what you want to accomplish. I put it out there, not as an exploit, but as an alternative strategy.

Certainly there are times when creating exchanges for other things can be lucrative, such as gaining a protectorate or swapping to gain a key territory, but I fully believe that money is also a valid return for a region. Selling a territory is not akin to selling military access, which is certainly exploitive. It also has a bit of historical validity as well as territory, especially colonial possessions were bought and sold between the major powers.

[lemming3k]

When you say selling military access, I take it you mean selling it at an overly inflated cost? Otherwise I'd say that's a legitimate strategy - after all if they want access to an enemy via your lands, they have to pay a toll.

Also, Louisiana purchase anyone?

[NJGOAT]

lemming - I agree with you that selling the military access is valid as well, within context. We all know the AI drastically overvalues military access, so while selling access reasonably to a country to facilitate their invasion of another is cool, selling it to every faction under the sun to gain cash can certainly be considered exploitive.

[lemming3k]

lemming - I agree with you that selling the military access is valid as well, within context. We all know the AI drastically overvalues military access, so while selling access reasonably to a country to facilitate their invasion of another is cool, selling it to every faction under the sun to gain cash can certainly be considered exploitive.

Heh, didn't even know you could do that! But after turn one they probably don't have a lot of money to really make much out of it. I've never been impressed with AI diplomacy though, always wanting war with bigger nations and refusing peace until they're reduced to one province, and then you don't really want peace any more!

[Granite88]

Do you find that trading provinces for money is generally better than trading provinces for provinces? I've found that as Spain or the UK trading provinces is, as you say, a good way to remove problem areas. Usually these areas are hard to reinforce and therein lies the problem.

For Spain, I find myself trading away Florida to remove the Cherokee threat, Flanders for the UP, and sometimes Milan to avoid wars in Italy, or I trade it to the UK for peace after in invade Portugal. I haven't found a setup with Spain that I am really happy with, ie. who to trade with and for what. I like getting Ceylon from the Dutch and I find that they don't give up Curacao easily. Lately the Dutch have been getting wiped out by the French, so I've been giving the Dutch flanders to keep the French from getting too strong. Plus I find that I like war with the UP anyway as i can take both of their SA holdings without much trouble. Sometimes I even trade Florida to Portugal as I wipe them out quickly and Florida is easier to retake than Goa.

As the UK, I also try to trade Rupert's Land, but again, I haven't decided the best way to do it. As the UK, have you tried trading any other provinces? And how did it go if you did?

Also, as France, can you really give away NA so easily? If you do, do you then focus on Europe?

So in your opinion, is it better to grab far flung territory, or do you really like the cash that much?

[british_general]

I kill the hurons before the hurons take rupert's land

[NJGOAT]

Granite - Whether you trade territory for money, to gain a protectorate or for other territory is all up to the macro goals of the campaign you are playing. I have tended to lean towards money as the extra cash infusion can go a long way early on to get your economy up and running and militarily stabilize areas you want to keep.

As Spain I have generally found that trading Flanders plus some cash for Curacao usually works. If not, you can always throw in Florida. Gaining Curacao gets you a mission objective and with Flanders in the UP's hands can avoid a war. Florida (if not traded to the Dutch) can be sold to the Cherokee. Florida is exceedingly difficult to hold when you have so many other things going on. Naples/Sicily can be sold to the Italian States, or they will sometimes accept it in exchange for becoming a protectorate. I have found that you need to occasionally throw in Sardinia to get the protectorate to work. Sardinia can be sold to the Genoese if it is not used to gain the Italian States as a protectorate. Lombardy can be sold to Venice or Savoy, I suggest Venice. This allows you to solidify your European holdings and focus on taking Portugal and Morocco and the Barbary States. In America your sole focus in building up your Carribean holdings and then completing the mission to gain South America. By shedding excess territory you avoid pointless wars and spending huge sums on developing multiple provinces. Once you have the South American territories and control the Iberian peninsula and North Africa you can do whatever you want.

As Britain Rupert's Land is really dependent on your goal. I tend to not play to gain the 13 Colonies quickly and instead focus on the Carribean and India and prop up the Colonies as needed. If you want the Colonies quickly you need to keep Rupert's Land as it can facilitate a quick strike on the French. I usually just sell Rupert's Land to the Huron. I have not found anyone who is willing to trade a territory for it. I have heard that you can trade it to the Huron for the York Factory territory all the way up in the NW corner of the map. This keeps your colony, but also makes it very defensible, but you still lose your base for hitting the French. As for trading other British regions, you can certainly sell Jamaica and the Bahamas, but I usually don't as they are great bases to take the Carribean and S. America from Spain. I have tried to trade them to the Dutch for Ceylon, but it was a no go. In fact, the Dutch won't take Rupert's, Jamaica and Bahamas for Celyon. You can do it if you throw all your starting cash at them as well, but that puts you in a bad spot. Besides, as Britain you need to support the Colonies with tech and money and sometimes troops to keep the balance of power in N. America.

I've played France both ways. When I give up the North American holdings I put my focus on the Carribean and taking Ceylon from the Dutch to facilitate my invasion of India. You always end up at war with the Dutch if you keep French Guyana. When you take Dutch Guyana, Curacao and the pirate bases you gain some really profitable colonial holdings and a great base for sending trade ships to Brazil and Ivory Coast. Way more profitable then slogging it out with the Indians in N. America for some furs. If I go for N. America I generally sell French Guyana and Martinique to Louisiana. This keeps me out of wars and still nets me money from the territories. I quickly gain them back after completing the mission, which is a lot easier to do when your only focus is N. America. No matter what, in Europe with France I simply try to maintain parity. Get Westphalia and Wurtemberg as allies and keep them that way. They are a great buffer. Savoy can be a pain, but with trade and gifts you can keep them friendly. The only offensive moves I tend to make in Europe are to take Morocco and the Barbary States.

So, overall I do whatever supports my long term goals the best. Usually selling off some territory in the beginning is a good idea. It gives you extra capital and lets you focus on your primary goal. Why fight stack after stack of natives in Canada if your goal is to take India?