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Thread: Did Japanese use crossbow??

  1. #1
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Did Japanese use crossbow??

    I am quite curious how crossbow warfare was developed in Japan. It seems that it was never popular or wide-spread in Japan anytime, which is quite strange to me consider China used it extensively. The feudal system of Japan should also push the development of this type of weapon, since it could simply mobile peasants for war...
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    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Well... a lot of great ideas just didn't occur to the right people. Perhaps this is an example.
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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Well... a lot of great ideas just didn't occur to the right people. Perhaps this is an example.
    The problem was that Chinese military and Japanese military was constantly exchange ideas and technology, hence it was quite strange Japanese did not pick up such an old idea and yet picked out Chinese sword forging technology.
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    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Perhaps they considered the crossbow inferior or dishonorable? I'm just theorising here.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Crossbows were tougher to handle on horseback?

  6. #6
    Ulf's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    Crossbows were tougher to handle on horseback?
    was horseback warfare common in Japan? I would take an educated guess and say that the Japanese found the crossbow dishonorable or were never shown its potential.
    Thank you for reading this assuredly fantastic post.

  7. #7
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulf View Post
    was horseback warfare common in Japan? I would take an educated guess and say that the Japanese found the crossbow dishonorable or were never shown its potential.
    It became more common after 12th Century, although the terrain of Japan (mountainous) means cavalry only had limit role most time.

    About the dishonorable part, it seems Samurai had no problem to use bow, even developed a technology for archers. Unless they somehow saw crossbow as something different than bow, I don't see where is the problem actually.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    They used guns...so I don't think it was an "honor" thing. Probably the issue was that it required perhaps some metal of develop it and metal was rare. They already have bows so why not keep whatever metal they do have for spears and swords
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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Quote Originally Posted by Carpathian Wolf View Post
    They used guns...so I don't think it was an "honor" thing. Probably the issue was that it required perhaps some metal of develop it and metal was rare. They already have bows so why not keep whatever metal they do have for spears and swords
    Perhaps, but that does not explain why wooden crossbows did not use widely in Japan. Besides, metal crossbow was difficult to operate and require some serious training, hence obviously not a weapon of choice when peasants were required to be mobiled.
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  10. #10
    DAVIDE's Avatar QVID MELIVS ROMA?
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    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    It is called Do (at least is pronounced in this way) and is the equivalent of LianNu. Made in miniature version too for soldiers (to use also for ambushes or sieges) even if personally, Samurai preferred to continue using the daisho (katana + wakizashi). Btw the practice of shooting from horseback became a Shinto ceremony of Yabusame

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    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Quote Originally Posted by Carpathian Wolf View Post
    They used guns...so I don't think it was an "honor" thing. Probably the issue was that it required perhaps some metal of develop it and metal was rare. They already have bows so why not keep whatever metal they do have for spears and swords
    They considered guns dishonorable... at least they say so in Shogun Total War.
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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Quote Originally Posted by davide.cool View Post
    It is called Do (at least is pronounced in this way) and is the equivalent of LianNu. Made in miniature version too for soldiers (to use also for ambushes or sieges) even if personally, Samurai preferred to continue using the daisho (katana + wakizashi). Btw the practice of shooting from horseback became a Shinto ceremony of Yabusame
    No, it is called Oyumi, which seems used by Ashigaru (by the way, Ashigaru, in Kanji, actually means light infantry).
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Is it possible the Samurai were afraid of giving the peasant classes too much martial power?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Chinese crossbows, both imported and domestically manufactured, were used in Japan until about the 11th century. Crossbows were considered to be a very powerful weapon, and it's manufacture was strictly controlled by the central government. The legions under the Ritsuryo system had a unit of crossbowmen, and there are numerous records of their use during early to mid Heian jidai.

    However the collapse of a centralized government, rise of the Bushi class in the 11th century and their favor of bows meant the disappearance wide usage of crossbows in Japan.

    They considered guns dishonorable... at least they say so in Shogun Total War
    I don't know if you are joking or being serious, but if you are serious that's just wrong. If there was anyone eager to own and use the gun, it was the Samurai.
    Last edited by Juggernaut; February 08, 2010 at 04:23 PM.

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    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut View Post
    I don't know if you are joking or being serious, but if you are serious that's just wrong. If there was anyone eager to own and use the gun, it was the Samurai.
    OK then. I didn't have high hopes that the intro of Shogun Total War was accurate historically.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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  16. #16
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Early samurai used to have duels where they would shoot at each other with bows whilst on horseback. That was the honourable thing to do, there were no katana duels back then. Early samurai prized the bow much like the katana was prized by the later samurai, and fighting with a bow was definitley not considered dishonourable.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    Early samurai used to have duels where they would shoot at each other with bows whilst on horseback. That was the honourable thing to do, there were no katana duels back then. Early samurai prized the bow much like the katana was prized by the later samurai, and fighting with a bow was definitley not considered dishonourable.

    To add also, kyudo (the way of the bow) was a holy procedure to them...for example it was disgraceful to step on a bow of a fallen enemy and they thought that the yumi(japanese bow) contained a part of the owner's spirit


  18. #18
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Quote Originally Posted by KaRoU23 View Post
    To add also, kyudo (the way of the bow) was a holy procedure to them...for example it was disgraceful to step on a bow of a fallen enemy and they thought that the yumi(japanese bow) contained a part of the owner's spirit
    That sounds just like how samurais treated the swords...
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  19. #19
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Like I said, the bow was the katana of the early era samurai.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Did Japanese use crossbow??

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    Like I said, the bow was the katana of the early era samurai.

    Yes the bow was of no serious importance later however it was used even by Nobunaga Oda in 1575(even later there were still users of yumi)


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