Mongol debt and running out of armies.

[BemusedHorse]

I love playing as Mongols, but what happens is I do fine with my first wave of hordes, conquer a few Cumans and Khwarezmians and then BAM 2ND GLORIOUS WAVE followed by the most preposterous debt I have ever seen. The problem is that my armies get smaller and smaller until the Turks who I always get to afore I got mushed can beat me. With no way to replenish them and I never see any other waves.
So every campaign with them just ends up with me curling round the Caspian cutting bout 3/4 provinces into the Seljuks then being royally screwed.
Is there any way to succeed against such a problem?

[Lysimachus]

You'll need to be taking settlements practically every turn. By about turn 9 (or so) i'd blitzed the Khwarezmians completely. Also, fight every single battle and fight them methodically and mechanically so as to minimalise losses. Then, since your troops will gradually run out of steam you can replenish them with new forces from towns (Mongol Infantry) or from castles (e.g, Alamut). You could always merge your units but that's alot of experience so i'd simply rotate them out of the line and retrain them (besides, recruiting new Mongol Infantry takes about 3 turns whereas retraining is instant).

[DirtyACE]

I have to agree with Lysimachus. You have to go to war with Khwarezmians immediately and wipe them out. You should also grab some rebel lands while you're at it, but take care of the Khwarezmians first. Try to make it so that you're taking at least one settlement per turn. Also, if you can, don't let the Khwarezmians create big armies. If you see some smaller ones, attack them immediately. Destroy their army piece by piece.

Your first and foremost goal is to stabilize your economy because your massive armies will drain whatever money you start with very quickly. And I wouldn't worry about the Cumans too much at first. Their lands are spread too far apart to go after them. Once the Khwarezmians are out of the way, then you can settle down a bit and build up your cities, make some money, and rebuild your armies.

[Petar]

Both replies are very informative. I'd just like to add a few extra tips:

- Use as much spies as possible. Knowing where to attack and who to intercept saves a lot of time when invading rocky Persia.
- Move small infantry&siege machine armies to enemy settlements while the bigger cavalry wipe all the wandering armies before joining the siege. That'll save a few valuable turns too.
- Send dimplomats to exchange trade agreements and map information for regular tributes. On lower difficulties you can pile up very solid income through negotiation only.

Hope these will help! Good luck!

[NattyB]

I tend to struggle in siege battles with the mongols you start with mongol infantry just don't cut it so I seem to suffer massive losses with infantry but none with the amazing horse archers and the heavy Calvary I usually win due to strength of numbers

Any tips?

[Lysimachus]

I tend to struggle in siege battles with the mongols you start with mongol infantry just don't cut it so I seem to suffer massive losses with infantry but none with the amazing horse archers and the heavy Calvary I usually win due to strength of numbers

Any tips?

Use your trebuchets (I think every single Mongol army has trebuchets) and if you don't have those, use the spies you have.

[NattyB]

Use your trebuchets (I think every single Mongol army has trebuchets) and if you don't have those, use the spies you have.

Thanks but thats not the problem I can't get the best out of mongol infantry in siege battles but in field battles they are pretty amazing

[Loose Cannon]

The Mongol economic problem is not difficult to overcome (unless you're playing the latest RR/RC). The real source of the problem is the seige weapons, spies, and assassins you get on turn 6. They're worthless. The spies and assassins have no skills and will often die the first time you use them. The seige weapons slow army movement down to almost nothing. So what do you do?

Disband the seige weapons. Six units of trebuchets are enough. Use the spies/assassins poorly and hope they get killed. Build only mines in your capital, farms in other towns. merge units as you lose soldiers but do not recruit any. Keep units low on soldiers behind in cities for population control. Only sack or exterminate cities, never just occupy. You are the Mongols, right.

Going north around Caspian sea is "not smart" (actually quite stupid). Those towns are worthless. Push hard to the south and southwest. Do not pause until you've conquered Baghdad. Your troops are still better then the Turks at this point, just keep bringing them westward so you can push on to the Mediteranian coast and get Antioch & Jerusalem.

[JorisofHolland]

There are two paths of total conquest you can follow
One is the most standard: assault and kill
The other one is a bit more complicated, and might blow up in your face.
Simply lay siege to all settlements you spot, leave a force strong enough to overcome theirs in a field battle and move on, killing all who stand in your path and starving those who hide behind walls. This will give you less expansion in the early game, but once the defenders run out of food you'll be an Emperor in no-time.

However, if your foe brings in more soldiers you might loose, depending on the ammount of troops both of you have and your tactical skill. Also, all your generals will run out of supplies, resulting in low morale. Unless you choose not to use generals to lead your armies, of course.

[Lysimachus]

Thanks but thats not the problem I can't get the best out of mongol infantry in siege battles but in field battles they are pretty amazing

Blast the walls as much as you can, and when you're inside make strong use of their bows. You can reduce the enemy ranks quite a lot and then once they reach your infantry they can function as melee soldiers too. At that point however, you might want to simply rush all your cavalry in to simply overrun the enemy without causing your infantry too much loss (they're going to be very important so don't waste them).

Disband the seige weapons. Six units of trebuchets are enough

Nuh-uh, you've got to keep all your siege weapons. That way you can assault any settlement you come across the moment you get to it rather than having to wait (every turn is crucial) for equipment to be built. Also, blowing down the walls is much more cost-effective than using siege towers since mongol infantry aren't very strong on the walls (not helped by the fact that the towers are shooting at you constantly).

[Loose Cannon]

No, Lysimachus, the 6 extra trebuchets just drain your treasury. They're too far away to be useful and cost 15,000 florins before you get them near enough to use them. Also, very few cities/castles will have balista towers when you get there so that 's not a problem. Two trebs in a stack will knock 4 holes in wooden walls or 2 holes in stone walls without a problem. Then, simply march your Mongol infantry up to the openings and shoot the garrison units as they stand there. (That is a problem caused by CA's programming) You'll lose a few men, then send in your cavalry to clean up.

Three stacks are all that is needed to clean out the Kwazzies but you've got 11.

[NattyB]

Yeah that makes sense and it should be easier once you get more rounded armies with the dismounted heavy lancers and dismounted light lancers.

[Fenrisulfrinn]

My problem has been that my armies have been slowly withered down over the course of 10 turns. I leave 6 - 8 Mongol infantry units behind as a garrison in each city I capture. At this point the Khwarezmians have the wooden castle Kerman and the three coastal territories next to it, but after small damages to my cavalry each turn and most of my infantry in garrison I don't seem to have the manpower to finish them off. My economy is positive (gaining between 1000 and 8000 florins per turn depending on trade relations), but it'll be a while before I can recruit/heal heavy cavalry units in my castles. Has anybody else had this problem of being strong in and around your cities, but not having the manpower to finish off the Khwarezmians?

[Lysimachus]

. I leave 6 - 8 Mongol infantry units behind as a garrison in each city I capture.

No. Don't do this at all. You need to sack or exterminate and then move on with your whole army. Just put the taxes low (if you need to, if not then don't) and then move forward with your whole army. If you've done all this and the public order is still under 75% then just get some mercenaries and put them in the settlement. Keep advancing forward with your armies. You're going to run out of steam even with your full armies so you might as well get as far as you can with them rather than garrisoning all the conquered settlements.

No, Lysimachus, the 6 extra trebuchets just drain your treasury. They're too far away to be useful and cost 15,000 florins before you get them near enough to use them. Also, very few cities/castles will have balista towers when you get there so that 's not a problem. Two trebs in a stack will knock 4 holes in wooden walls or 2 holes in stone walls without a problem. Then, simply march your Mongol infantry up to the openings and shoot the garrison units as they stand there. (That is a problem caused by CA's programming) You'll lose a few men, then send in your cavalry to clean up.

Three stacks are all that is needed to clean out the Kwazzies but you've got 11.

To clear the Kwarezmians, yes. But then you have the Seljuks and Fatimids to defeat. Or if you go the historical way and go north of the Caspian too, you have much more to deal with.

[Night]

"followed by the most preposterous DEBT I have ever seen."

If you are playing vanilla 6.1 the debt is because of the "Pirate bug" just do a search and you will find the fix for it.. basically a bug that makes mongols lose 12000 gold every turn or so abouts..
And if this was your problem then i seriously wonder why there isnt a stickie or something to refer to a fix about this rather serious bug which i imagine LOTS of people play with wihout knowing its a bug, i mean everyone doesnt read the forums looking for bug fixes 24/7 just go figure..
There should be a big really big stickie with all bug fixes and/or something about this on the dowload and install section of the mod so it wont be missed by so many people.
gl hf

[Navajo Joe]

Night,

There is already, please see Bugs Section, Stickie called F.A.Q Expanded By Rozanov