Why do muslims consider the hadiths to be part of Islam?

[Treize]

In my opinion these texts have nothing to do with the religion itself.

Muhammed had visions (from god) that he had to tell to the people, but he himself was just a normal man, right?
Than why muslims want to mimic his behaviour?
His decisions are not part of 'god's word', right?

It seems a bit wierd to me, idol like.

[removeduser_487563287433]

In my opinion these texts have nothing to do with the religion itself.

Muhammed had visions (from god) that he had to tell to the people, but he himself was just a normal man, right?
Than why muslims want to mimic his behaviour?
His decisions are not part of 'god's word', right?

It seems a bit wierd to me, idol like.

Well yes, but Christians have accepted and discarded texts that have only the most tenuous of links to Jesus Christ and have accepted a set of texts that contradict each other on Jesus Christ, his life and his teachings.

[Carpathian Wolf]

Well yes, but Christians have accepted and discarded texts that have only the most tenuous of links to Jesus Christ and have accepted a set of texts that contradict each other on Jesus Christ, his life and his teachings.

Sure unless you stick with the Sept.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Sure unless you stick with the Sept.

No still all those things.

[Treize]

True.

[removeduser_487563287433]

True.

I mean, people really need to drop the pretense of religions being about what the modern religious think they are about. These religions are thousands of years old and have changed according to the politics and fashions of every generation. Religion is not static, the Word of God is completely malable.

Were there female priests in early Christianity? Absolutely. Now? Only just, in some minority sects. In the 17th century did Christians burn witches? Yes. Now? N... well, in Africa.

Religion has nothing to do with theology. It is about culture, politics and tradition.

[Treize]

Hmmmm?

It is about believing in a supernatural thing IMO.

In this case the abrahamic diety.
The god passed his word over to Mr. M trough an angel in visions/dreams.

He told the stuff in the visions to his followers but now his followers are, IMO, idolising him.
Especcialy regarding 'islamic' law.

They base their juridical system on Muhammed's life, but why?
Was it written in the Quran that good believers should mimic Mohammed?

[removeduser_487563287433]

Hmmmm?

It is about believing in a supernatural thing IMO.

In this case the abrahamic diety.
The god passed his word over to Mr. M trough an angel in visions/dreams.

He told the stuff in the visions to his followers but now his followers are, IMO, idolising him.
Especcialy regarding 'islamic' law.

They base their juridical system on Muhammed's life, but why?
Was it written in the Quran that good believers should mimic Mohammed?

Meh, even that's pretty interchangable. Judaism was originally a polytheistic sacrificial religion.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

The Hadiths are meant to be understandings of the Quran by learned scholars because not everyone understands the many meanings various things have in the Quran. Its like a helpful translating guide. There are many hadiths which are only to prove various different ways of learning.

They also give references to what Mohammad (PBUH) did in various legal or life changing things to be a reference point. One cannot copy him (PBUH) since he (PBUM) was a prophet but they can still learn what he did in various situations.

[Treize]

The Hadiths are meant to be understandings of the Quran by learned scholars because not everyone understands the many meanings various things have in the Quran. Its like a helpful translating guide. There are many hadiths which are only to prove various different ways of learning.

They also give references to what Mohammad (PBUH) did in various legal or life changing things to be a reference point. One cannot copy him (PBUH) since he (PBUM) was a prophet but they can still learn what he did in various situations.

The first part is understandable.

But why do you want to punish/judge people like Mohammed did?
I could even understand that if your are a bit of a radical person that you want to base you laws on the Quran. (Although that would still be revolting.) But I cannot grasp why people want to base their system on the handlings of Mohammed, he was a normal man who had visions, he was not god himself. Therfore his handlings are of no importance to believers, only his visions matter.

Right?

Another example.

The Quran tells you to pray, and the hadiths explain how.
Did they base it on the way Muhammed prayed?
What does it matter how you pray, aslong as you pray.

If you pray like a Christian for example, that isn't wrong as far as I understand it.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

But why do you want to punish/judge people like Mohammed did?
I could even understand that if your are a bit of a radical person that you want to base you laws on the Quran. (Although that would still be revolting.) But I cannot grasp why people want to base their system on the handlings of Mohammed, he was a normal man who had visions, he was not god himself. Therfore his handlings are of no importance to believers, only his visions matter.

Right?

His message is more important than he was himself since he (PBUH) was only a prophet and he kept saying he was man and not God. They do it because either there is no reference point in law or because the local laws are unhelpful or don't go into these details. Many of these laws are used in village type settings while cities, like Karachi for example, use the law of the country.

Another example.

The Quran tells you to pray, and the hadiths explain how.
Did they base it on the way Muhammed prayed?
What does it matter how you pray, aslong as you pray.

If you pray like a Christian for example, that isn't wrong as far as I understand it.

Yes, they tell us how Mohammad (PBUM) prayed. We pray that way because thats the right way. Christans bow down to idols and immaterial objects (regardless of that spirtual stuff they say, its always the idol of Jesus on a cross) thus their prayign is not praying to God but to the idol and thus invalidates any prayer.

[Treize]

His message is more important than he was himself since he (PBUH) was only a prophet and he kept saying he was man and not God. They do it because either there is no reference point in law or because the local laws are unhelpful or don't go into these details. Many of these laws are used in village type settings while cities, like Karachi for example, use the law of the country.



Yes, they tell us how Mohammad (PBUM) prayed. We pray that way because thats the right way. Christans bow down to idols and immaterial objects (regardless of that spirtual stuff they say, its always the idol of Jesus on a cross) thus their prayign is not praying to God but to the idol and thus invalidates any prayer.

But why use Muhammed's decisions (medieval stuff not usable in modern society IMO) instead of secular law?

They don't.
I meant the kneeling, fold hands, close eyes stuff as an alternative to lying on a mat with your forehead on the floor.
That has nothing to do with idol worship.

Muslims are very anti-idol but they treat Muhammed as an idol themselfs IMO.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

But why use Muhammed's decisions (medieval stuff not usable in modern society IMO) instead of secular law?

Because the countries laws do not reach or are ineffective to go through. It takes years for cases to be heard.

They don't.
I meant the kneeling, fold hands, close eyes stuff as an alternative to lying on a mat with your forehead on the floor.
That has nothing to do with idol worship.

There is a Jesus on the Cross in Chruches Yes or No?
The Jesus on the Cross in in front of the prayers Yes or No?
They bow down to the Jesus in front of the Chappel yes or no?

Idol worshipers hiding in the disuge of Monothesim.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Well historically Muslims have made images of Mohammed, and Christians do not actually worship the image of Jesus on the Cross. I'm pretty sure Muhammed never told you to be purposefully ignorant, nor to troll forums.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

Well historically Muslims have made images of Mohammed, and Christians do not actually worship the image of Jesus on the Cross.

Please show these pictures inside Mosques and the people praying to them.

[removeduser_487563287433]

That's not the point, is it? You wont find pictures of people praying to an idol in a Church, either, though an image of Jesus may indeed be present. You are being purposefully ignorant and antagonistic by insisting on misunderstanding that Christians are not praying to the item, but to God.

[Treize]

This.

[removeduser_487563287433]

What is more ineffective, Shahnashmashpotatos? A legal system that takes years and establishes guilt and appropriate punishment, or an Iron Age code of retaliation?

[Central Asian Qaghan]

What is more ineffective, Shahnashmashpotatos? A legal system that takes years and establishes guilt and appropriate punishment, or an Iron Age code of retaliation?

Having never been in the legal situation nor ever wish too, I woul dhave no ideal nor do I want to know. Ask someone who has been through the process.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Having never been in the legal situation nor ever wish too, I woul dhave no ideal nor do I want to know. Ask someone who has been through the process.

Evasion, Smashngrab, you do not need to experience the legal system to have an opinion on it. I know I would prefer to be judged by a jury of my peers, a trained judge, with legal counsel and codified, secular laws than be at the mercy of bearded shamen and their goat-herders' book.