Why the reference to ETW's BAI being a "Broken Donkey?" Admission of guilt or not

[hellas1]

Hi all,

I just posted this topic in the official forums in a polite way and it was immediately sent to the graveyard!

The nerve of this company's moderators!

I want to know why "Kieran" whoever this guy REALLY is had the gall to state that kind of thing.

Sega/CA,

Don't allow people to make stupid statements when people are dealing with an expensive busted game.

You'd think that free speech is no longer free, is THAT what you are promoting Sega/CA?

Comments?
hellas1

[Abspara]

It's an admission of guilt. They have long known this game is busted. The only reason they are forthcoming about it now is to tear ETW down so NTW will appear to be a much improved and better product. That would not of happened earlier as ETW was still their main release and they'd not jeopodize sales on that. Now, it's not worth protecting anymore.

[hellas1]

@Abspara,

Why did CA respond to the "ETW is no longer supported?" thread but not ultimately promise us, paying long term customers ANYTHING regarding a BAI fix for ETW?

Are they thinking that "Well, let them have their Darthmod, that'll appeal them."
(NO disrespect meant to Darthvader, as he understands my intentions and I understand what he's done with his mods and other work, which is kickass work btw!)

Comments?
hellas1

[Abspara]

They responded with typical PR propaganda and made no promises. It's highly unlikely they will revisit this game with any gameplay patches. they have no reason to. DLC maybe..

[hellas1]

@Abspara,

So, Has the BAI issue with ETW been pinpointed on a specific "thing" per se, like people's computer hardware i.e. Quad core vs. Non Quad core?
(Incidentally, a number of games have this issue of acting strange on Quad core CPU's, Fallout 3 GOTY edition does this, mine did as I have a quad core)

OR Is it only a code issue within ETW?

Thanks,
hellas1

[Steeltrap]

@Abspara,

So, Has the BAI issue with ETW been pinpointed on a specific "thing" per se, like people's computer hardware i.e. Quad core vs. Non Quad core?
(Incidentally, a number of games have this issue of acting strange on Quad core CPU's, Fallout 3 GOTY edition does this, mine did as I have a quad core)

OR Is it only a code issue within ETW?

Thanks,
hellas1

BAI is strictly a case of coding.

Darth and others have done what they can within the limited scope of the variables open to them.

CA knowingly pushed a piece of code ~ poor/nonexistent multi-threading, huge memory leak, etc etc ~ on us while hyping up how great it is. Now Kieran admits it was Donkey Kong.....

There's a great post about just how poor CA's code is, written by someone with a lot of modding experience in one of the long threads. It's an absolute eye-opener. If I find it I might provide a link here.

OK, found it: comment on code

[Dewy]

BAI is strictly a case of coding.

Darth and others have done what they can within the limited scope of the variables open to them.

CA knowingly pushed a piece of code ~ poor/nonexistent multi-threading, huge memory leak, etc etc ~ on us while hyping up how great it is. Now Kieran admits it was Donkey Kong.....

There's a great post about just how poor CA's code is, written by someone with a lot of modding experience in one of the long threads. It's an absolute eye-opener. If I find it I might provide a link here.

OK, found it: comment on code

Please don't listen to that post it is utter crap, try listening to the people that know best; the actual programmers on the forums and the small amount of people in the games industry (hope I'm not the only one other than the CA guys). Also when someone admits to braking the law in their post it should tell you some thing about them. If you didn't know reverse engineering a piece of software like a game (some cases it isn't) is illegal

EDIT: I mean comment on code, I agree with the rest. God Humble make me edit

My exasperation of the ignorance in your posts is growing as people are actually believing it; just hope you don't. You can't modify the AI in RTW or M2TW, or in ETW; as I didn't even say that to begin with. The 'AI' is programmed in C++, unlike most games the file containing the parameters aren't compiled into the content pipe-line; not every game even has a file with parameters. That file is the file, modders use to change the parameters; for some reason most modders actually think its the AI harhar.

Yes and you still aren't a programmer using simple scripts is a a far stretch from actual code; no offence I still love XAI. As I'm sure you wouldn't like me telling you how to do your job; you should have the gumption to listen to me.

[Huberto]

Please don't listen to that post it is utter crap, try listening to the people that know best; the actual programmers on the forums and the small amount of people in the games industry (hope I'm not the only one other than the CA guys). Also when someone admits to braking the law in their post it should tell you some thing about them. If you didn't know reverse engineering a piece of software like a game (some cases it isn't) is illegal

EDIT: I mean comment on code, I agree with the rest. God Humble make me edit

Your comments are interesting. I am wondering who should we listen to - who are the actual programmers here at TW center? I was arguing about this issue with Tony83? and he said that Xeryx is meticulous at his work and spoke very highly of him. Are you saying that CA's coding is good or that Xeryx isn't in a postion to know that or both? Also is it your opinion that the BAI in Empire is too hard to go back and work on -- even though according to CA it has gotten a major upgrade in Napoleon? Also given the "constant evolution" production model that Kieran has been talking about, does that mean that it is easier or harder or no makes difference to go back and fix some of the broken bits of ETW. Thanks for your reply.

[Solar]

The "broken donkey" and "thoroughbred" comparison thing sounds to me like a between-the-lines admission that the BAI was mostly rebuilt, if not rebuilt from scratch, for NTW. They've already said that they had to work with unfinished code from someone they had lost touch with in order to release ETW; they might have (well, hopefully they have) decided to scrap that and get a new team of coders to work on BAI while NTW was in production.

[Marcion]

Coming from the developer, it was an admission of failure. They tried to make a great game, but were unable to do it within constraints of time and money. The only "guilty" one, possibly, would be Sega for throwing it out the door, and thus committing the horrendous, unforgivable crime of disappointing the people on this forum.

[Aeneas Veneratio]

Coming from the developer, it was an admission of failure. They tried to make a great game, but were unable to do it within constraints of time and money. The only "guilty" one, possibly, would be Sega for throwing it out the door, and thus committing the horrendous, unforgivable crime of disappointing the people on this forum.

What a bold statement. I wonder, how many TW players actually go to this forum to rant/praice/critisize/read/etc., and IF those numbers are representative for the majority of the TW players.
If I was to believe the WOW forums, for example, I would suspect 11 million players were going to rage-quit by the end of the week, but for some reason that doesnt happen...

[daniu]

What a bold statement. I wonder, how many TW players actually go to this forum to rant/praice/critisize/read/etc., and IF those numbers are representative for the majority of the TW players.

I did detect some trace of sarcasm in his tone...

If I was to believe the WOW forums, for example, I would suspect 11 million players were going to rage-quit by the end of the week, but for some reason that doesnt happen...

Wait a minute...
got to be here somewhere...
ah, there it is.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[PlacidDragon]

I did detect some trace of sarcasm in his tone...
Wait a minute...
got to be here somewhere...
ah, there it is.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

lol, that picture was genious

[Jedi1]

Most defiantly so but it's happened before. The real admission of guilt was a while back closer to the announcement of NTW there was an interview in which the lead developer (can't think of how to spell his name at the moment) admitted that had had something a number of copies of ETW on his shelf that he was going to send out to his friends on release but then didn't because of his shame at the state of the game.

For me they seem to have worked most of the bugs out of the game but the one thing that stops me really enjoying this game is the lack of any decent AI. In just about every battle it simply has all it's units run around the place like a bunch of head less chickens with nothing resembling an organised defence. Some times it does form a line early in the battle but then the moment you start approaching it decide it needs to adjust it's line and then does this by redploying every unit meaning you can advance and destroy then with few difficulties. So by the time your into mid game you've got numerical superiority any ware you want it and can steam role them.

This is what frustrates me about the complete lake of support for the Multilayer campaign beta leaving it in the ridiculously buggy state it is without even a single attempt to remove the major ones.

[Blofeld2k]

Adding the URL to the now famous "quote":

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/67472

Wounded donkey:
“Empire: Total War has exceeded all our expectations. It's one of those rare "great works" that the team will remember with enormous pride for the rest of their lives, and the public will remember as one of the landmark games of the decade”
Mike Simpson, Creative Director at The Creative Assembly

[Greve Af Göteborg]

This is the work of the moderators, they probably realized that your thread would only start a huge flame war and litter the forums with posts flaming everything.

Seeing how nothing constructive would've come out of the thread they closed it.

[Humble Warrior]

@ dewy, you are in denial. Steeltrap is right. Look at the damn evidence from even their own mouths.

Well it`s all over with Ca really. kieran`s shown what his words really mean. CA don`t give two hoots.

I have no respect for a company that can leave a product half-fixed, tell us they`ll be no more patches, call it a Broken donkey and STILL sell DLCs for the Broken Donkey. Surely, no sane person could purchase one DLC for ETW after that slap in the face? they show all ETW purchasers no respect,so why should we have any for them?

[Dewy]

@ dewy, you are in denial. Steeltrap is right. Look at the damn evidence from even their own mouths.

Well it`s all over with Ca really. kieran`s shown what his words really mean. CA don`t give two hoots.

I have no respect for a company that can leave a product half-fixed, tell us they`ll be no more patches, call it a Broken donkey and STILL sell DLCs for the Broken Donkey. Surely, no sane person could purchase one DLC for ETW after that slap in the face? they show all ETW purchasers no respect,so why should we have any for them?

For the people out there that didn't read his post. comment on code

[hobopunk]

@ dewy, you are in denial. Steeltrap is right. Look at the damn evidence from even their own mouths.

Well it`s all over with Ca really. kieran`s shown what his words really mean. CA don`t give two hoots.

I have no respect for a company that can leave a product half-fixed, tell us they`ll be no more patches, call it a Broken donkey and STILL sell DLCs for the Broken Donkey. Surely, no sane person could purchase one DLC for ETW after that slap in the face? they show all ETW purchasers no respect,so why should we have any for them?

Are you not buying NTW then, Humble?

[leonn]

dewy,'the fighting styles are different between the two periods'? i dont think so,18th and 19th century tactics were very much alike. line ,column,square and others were almost identical but somewhat better utilised in the 19thc.if ntw turns out radically different then its inaccurate.