Phalanx in loose formation?

[Parzival2211]

Hi,

recently, I've watched a commentary battle, in which the player put his phalanx in loose formation because he had less troops than the enemy. He won, so, apparently, it wasn't too bad, but doesn't that make the phalanx unit weaker, I mean being spread out, when facing a more more closely packed opposing phalanx unit?

Advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[{GrailKnight}]

I'd use a Phalanx on loose as my meat-shield against Pila attacks.

[|Sith| Max]

Only phalanxes of epic porprotions may do that and win. Think gold gold sacred band. The enemy inf must be In guard mode for it to work. It helps if they are unupgraded. Doing this with any kind of pikemen is irresponsible, unless you hav cav

[DeerHunter]

Loose phalanx is a great way of protecting your archers , using the loose pikemen preferably with cheap pike units infront of the archers makes it very hard far the opponent to charge your archers with his cav

[roam]

esp if only has chars!

[Warhammster]

Hoplites/pikemen in loose formation and phalanx are very difficult to kill with archers from the front, it's the second best thing other than testudo to reduce casualties from ranged attackers.

[Parzival2211]

Thanks guys for the answers.

Historically, it may not make so much sense that phalanx on loose is good against archers because it was the overlapping shields of the closely packed phalanx that provided the extra protection.

The point is, however, that the guy went into melee against another phalanx army. He was using royal pikemen. Is that really a promising tactical move?

[Lancy]

The point is, however, that the guy went into melee against another phalanx army. He was using royal pikemen. Is that really a promising tactical move?

Under most circumstances it is not. Wud depend on a number of other factors, such as what the opposing pikes were, if they attempted to flank the royals with superior infantry numbers, how the cavalry fight went down and whether or not the guy was able to rapidly support his royal pikes with flanking attacks.

It would help if you could link us to the commentary battle.

[caesar_37th]

well sele king the thing about rtw is that the engine runs the game on a unit to unit scale so there is no way to "double team" so thats not possible, it just lowers morale and fighting damage i believe.

[king-nord]

Nope don't put your phalanx in lose formation unless you wana get rushed and crushed.

I always have mine in lose though, its useful if you use it right

[Pelopidas_Of_Thebes]

Thanks guys for the answers.

Historically, it may not make so much sense that phalanx on loose is good against archers because it was the overlapping shields of the closely packed phalanx that provided the extra protection.

The point is, however, that the guy went into melee against another phalanx army. He was using royal pikemen. Is that really a promising tactical move?

That is not true historically or theoretically. They didnt overlap shields that much, and secondly if you knew anything about the projectiles of arrows, the arrows would hit the head or upper chest first, where the shield wont be able to protect you (as a hoplite). So loose formation would have been better..... Sure, if the arrows shot straight, completely like a bullet, the shield could protect you..... the shield cant protect you, if gravity applies to the arrow.......

[Warhammster]

That is not true historically or theoretically. They didnt overlap shields that much, and secondly if you knew anything about the projectiles of arrows, the arrows would hit the head or upper chest first, where the shield wont be able to protect you (as a hoplite). So loose formation would have been better..... Sure, if the arrows shot straight, completely like a bullet, the shield could protect you..... the shield cant protect you, if gravity applies to the arrow.......

On the other hand, the effect of arrow rains are usually exaggerated in movies and games such as these.

[Drakedeath]

That is not true historically or theoretically. They didnt overlap shields that much, and secondly if you knew anything about the projectiles of arrows, the arrows would hit the head or upper chest first, where the shield wont be able to protect you (as a hoplite). So loose formation would have been better..... Sure, if the arrows shot straight, completely like a bullet, the shield could protect you..... the shield cant protect you, if gravity applies to the arrow.......

Hoplons covered everything from the thigh up to the neck. Greaves protected the shins. Most hoplites also wore helmets, whether they're close-faced or open-faced. So, on an open-helmed hoplite, the only vulnerable areas would be just above the knee and the face, and really just the knee on a closed helm.

[king-nord]

We can talk about the greek's lameass phalanx's all we want boys it still don't take away the fact roman infantry were better than the greeks in every way but reach.

[Warhammster]

We can talk about the greek's lameass phalanx's all we want boys it still don't take away the fact roman infantry were better than the greeks in every way but reach.

Roman armies were mediocre at best, Roman military history is full of embarrassing defeats, the Romans won in the end becuase they could always raise new armies.

[|Sith| Max]

We can talk about the greek's lameass phalanx's all we want boys it still don't take away the fact roman infantry were better than the greeks in every way but reach.

question, Are you the Old Nordy from AoE or another nordy?

[Dave Strider]

I personally don't like Loose formation Phalanxes, as I tend to think about the individual soldiers in the units, and with good reason.

Loose formation seperates and Isolates each member of the Phalanx, making them less vulnerable to ranged attacks but severely weakening them in Hand to hand fighting. This allows the enemy soldiers to gang up on 1 single soldier with 2-4 of their own and do massive damage to that unit. Because of the Characteristics of the Phalanx in the game this means that other soldiers won't come to support them, meaning that essentially every soldier is doomed unless the Phalanx is broken or is put into standard formation, thus weakening it even FURTHER. If alot of soldiers that are known for being weak in hand to hand combat but excellent in Phalanx(example being Pikemen), Loose formation robs them of support from other members of that Formation, leading to that soldier's death. The same happens for another, and another, and another until finally the entire unit is killed from being widdled down so much by being overwhelmed on the individual scale. Even a Hammer and Anvil with Heavy Cavalry won't help as much as it would if the Phalanx were in tight formation.

Basically, don't use Loose formation unless the enemy infantry have Pila, than quickly put them back into Tight formation and THEN order them into Melee.

[|Sith| Max]

Talk about things you have knowledge of sele king...

[|Sith| Max]

yes but ya gotta know when ta put em back in tight.

[Dave Strider]

@Caesar_37:

Actually, I've seen plenty of individual units(one man, not the actual units) being double teamed or double teaming other soldiers in the midst of combat.