Valk's once in a blue moon victory replays.

[Valkierei]

http://www.mediafire.com/?xxkdmqmfngj
vs marine spam from king arthur

http://www.mediafire.com/?lmmmmydlkyz
vs terminator

http://www.mediafire.com/?yznizmcvny5
vs tbone(gods)

http://www.mediafire.com/?onu2vomj5yd
vs mlg avoidware

http://www.mediafire.com/?zzdkzzzo1wn
vs the undefeated indian army of scip


please do not care about the names. its the gameplay thats interesting. mass cavalry formations. divide and destroy. etc.

likely to be closed by admin due to there already being a replay thread! but whatever close it if u must =p

[Turumba]

Nice replays! +rep for sharing.

Have to say, i´m still not sure about your style. The only thing that avoid me from call it cav spam is the fact that one need skill to use all this massive cav properly- and you undoubtedly have that skill.

I tried it out this way and i won- but, how to say, i got the feeling that it lacks something. If the gamer is a smith than you use just hammer and anvil and the result is a solid but unsightly sword- i prefer a fine sword, forged in a much longer time, with some squiggled signs on it... Skirmishing is part of the game for me and i simply miss this part. Of course, in the end, you can argue that its just result that count- everyone have his likes and dislikes.

I would like to read some other opinions about this topic!

[Spectre11B]

Nice replays! +rep for sharing.

Have to say, i´m still not sure about your style. The only thing that avoid me from call it cav spam is the fact that one need skill to use all this massive cav properly- and you undoubtedly have that skill.

I tried it out this way and i won- but, how to say, i got the feeling that it lacks something. If the gamer is a smith than you use just hammer and anvil and the result is a solid but unsightly sword- i prefer a fine sword, forged in a much longer time, with some squiggled signs on it... Skirmishing is part of the game for me and i simply miss this part. Of course, in the end, you can argue that its just result that count- everyone have his likes and dislikes.

I would like to read some other opinions about this topic!

I agree with the other comment. This isn't spam. Mainly because cavalry in my opinion are balanced, excluding light dragoons. The other reason is because armies that are cavalry heavy have a counter tactic. and is something that you rarely see people do.

A Double line.

The advantages to a second line is it protects your front line and it protects any cavalry that is placed near it. If your cav is attacked, just form a square. Not only will your square shoot the enemy cav, but you can drag your cavalry through your square, which will inflict heavy losses to his cavalry.


Even more importantly, it adds a morale buff to all units near it. You'll notice it when you see the display "Encouraged by supporting army" I believe this requires a few units that have not been in combat to be stationary.


So if you ever see someone with 6 or more cav, go ahead and throw a few line units behind your main line. Keep your cavalry on defense. Dont forget to switch out units that have become weakened which is another nice thing about a double line.

[TheAussieDigger]

can u upload actually using twcenter rather than a filesharer?
i get a failed download

[Valkierei]

I agree with the other comment. This isn't spam. Mainly because cavalry in my opinion are balanced, excluding light dragoons. The other reason is because armies that are cavalry heavy have a counter tactic. and is something that you rarely see people do.

A Double line.

The advantages to a second line is it protects your front line and it protects any cavalry that is placed near it. If your cav is attacked, just form a square. Not only will your square shoot the enemy cav, but you can drag your cavalry through your square, which will inflict heavy losses to his cavalry.


Even more importantly, it adds a morale buff to all units near it. You'll notice it when you see the display "Encouraged by supporting army" I believe this requires a few units that have not been in combat to be stationary.

So if you ever see someone with 6 or more cav, go ahead and throw a few line units behind your main line. Keep your cavalry on defense. Dont forget to switch out units that have become weakened which is another nice thing about a double line.

you just caused me a lot of trouble dude. lol. yes its true double line works. i use it with grenzers.

but, if the opponent flanks the double line to be perpendicular to it, it'll be a hassle for the defender to reform too. gonna get charged 2 or 3 times while reforming. =)

in the end, when both sides use A* tactics and formations. the determinant for victory will be the micro skills.

[Valkierei]

have fun with it. =)

[daniu]

A Double line.[...]
Dont forget to switch out units that have become weakened which is another nice thing about a double line.

Funny you mention that, I have been using this quite a bit in the last 1-2 weeks - see my latest video
I hadn't thought about it as a cav counter yet, but as you see, I do use it against "regular" melee troops;
plus, I recently discovered it to use with melee troops as well (currently thinking about showing that in my next vid, actually);
this way you can attack in waves with one of the lines while the other is resting (so you don't get the exhaustion morale debuff).

Even more importantly, it adds a morale buff to all units near it. You'll notice it when you see the display "Encouraged by supporting army" I believe this requires a few units that have not been in combat to be stationary.

Hmmm, you think? Possible... I did wonder what that meant, exactly...

but, if the opponent flanks the double line to be perpendicular to it, it'll be a hassle for the defender to reform too. gonna get charged 2 or 3 times while reforming. =)

Not sure if I know what you mean; the units in the back can be used to protect the flanks quite effectively.
(It is easier to flank the whole "block" of units than it is to flank them if they're in a single line, obviously)

in the end, when both sides use A* tactics and formations. the determinant for victory will be the micro skills.

Yes. And if those are both A*, it's down to luck whose units cause more casualties with their volleys...

[Valkierei]

skirmishing is the part i hate the most. so of course its not in game. i just go straight for the kill. lol

[{GODS}Scipio_Africanus]

Valk's tactic isn't spam if anyone still accuses him of it... I keep telling everyone that.. I use sometimes 8-10 cavalry in 1v1s and I never felt I had any HUGE advantage, it's usually just for the maneuverability and the fact that i can force anyone to reallocate their whole armies just with my cavalry, I can usually bring up my line during their movements too and tear them apart. Very effective when you can do it precisely.

[aletoledo]

Very nice use of cavalry. It's like you flank him with all your cav (usually left) and then setup a depot to do a series of charges at his rear. Quite interesting to see it pulled off, because a couple of those battles looked like you weren't going to succeed. In particular was the 2v2 battle, because he was up against the red line, giving you no room to flank him. Eventually you forced your way through, but if he had held that flank you might have been in trouble. It really explains also why you form up at the far right of the deployment zone, so as to lure your opponent to the right and giving you plenty of room to flank him on the left.

[Valkierei]

well... the double line isnt as effective as u think. to build a big enough army for a strong double line. your cavalry strength will be reduced. thus it'll be hard to protect your flanks. to counter double line. simply charge an uhlan into the back line and a heavy cav into the front line. if they square u press stop. simple. if they dont square. the back line will get 40 casualties and wont be able to shoot the heavy cav charging into the front line. which after 2 volleys from 2 bulkleys should rout.

and if the length of the army is small aka weak double line. a simple fire fight with constant checks by cav while your troops mow down the 1st line will do the trick, since the ratio of troops in the 1st line will be reduced.

when the 2nd line is left. they get checkmate. if u increase the force of the 1st line to not lose in the intial fight. your 2nd line wont be able to prevent cavalry disruptions as effectively. check again.

[Spectre11B]

well... the double line isnt as effective as u think. to build a big enough army for a strong double line. your cavalry strength will be reduced. thus it'll be hard to protect your flanks. to counter double line. simply charge an uhlan into the back line and a heavy cav into the front line. if they square u press stop. simple. if they dont square. the back line will get 40 casualties and wont be able to shoot the heavy cav charging into the front line. which after 2 volleys from 2 bulkleys should rout.
.

You missed the part where you keep Cav in defense. The rear line will form a square, just as you mentioned. They will shoot at your Uhlans and your heavy cav. Remember, they can shoot from all sides. Now my defensive cav attacks your Heavy Cavalry and your Uhlans and once engaged, I drag them near my squared line. I may lose 20 line infantry and a few cav but you lose 2 expensive units.

The only way to get around this Conundrum is to somehow force the second line to move but since you have 8 cavalry, you just dont have enough units to attempt an adequate infantry flank. I will always have a few line and skirmisher units more than you.


I'm not taking away from your strategy, it's actually very intimidating. Especially against those who aren't very agile with their units and get flustered. Also, most people set up their units in a single line formation (I am talking about line infantry since they are the only ones that can square and without that ability, your ability to ward off cavalry is limited) People using a single line formation are going to get crushed by your strategy because they can't respond quickly enough to your highly mobile cavalry.

But just like any strategy, there is always a counter.

[Valkierei]

You missed the part where you keep Cav in defense. The rear line will form a square, just as you mentioned. They will shoot at your Uhlans and your heavy cav. Remember, they can shoot from all sides. Now my defensive cav attacks your Heavy Cavalry and your Uhlans and once engaged, I drag them near my squared line. I may lose 20 line infantry and a few cav but you lose 2 expensive units.

The only way to get around this Conundrum is to somehow force the second line to move but since you have 8 cavalry, you just dont have enough units to attempt an adequate infantry flank. I will always have a few line and skirmisher units more than you.


I'm not taking away from your strategy, it's actually very intimidating. Especially against those who aren't very agile with their units and get flustered. Also, most people set up their units in a single line formation (I am talking about line infantry since they are the only ones that can square and without that ability, your ability to ward off cavalry is limited) People using a single line formation are going to get crushed by your strategy because they can't respond quickly enough to your highly mobile cavalry.

But just like any strategy, there is always a counter.

spectre, against a rush, your defensive cav, even if theres 2 units, will take abt a min to kill 1 curais. ure bringing what? 6? at most? its about maneuvers but, i'll have more cav and its impossible to stop all of them.

and once the rear line is in squares, i can peacefully charge your men at the front. vice versa. the tactical advantage of cavalry most beneficial to the supporting infantry is getting the enemy to square.

then time taken to square and unsquare will cost the enemy a lot of troops. =) thats how my 5 pretty line can mow down 10+. lol.

and uhlans are meant to be for infantry only. surrounded and guarded by heavy cav. i dont mind squares shooting my cav since thats peanuts in exchange for the lines you'll be losing at the front. and i remove my cavalry very, very quickly. =p

yes there is a counter. out micro, out maneuver. no more dependence on individual units, no more keeping formations and stuff.

i quote bruce lee, be like the water! LOL! the moment you have a pretty formation. you are dead! move in a clump and shape whatever is most effective. =)

and if you are unable to coordinate both cavalry, infantry, and rifles to work together, or more than 3 units are idle. you're screwed. even if they are idle in order to protect yr flanks from cav.

you having defensive cav would mean you would have a balanced army. meaning your army is weak anyway. you need an extreme point of your army to assure victory. to win in that aspect, that extreme point. be it cav, or firepower, or artillery. a general who tries to defend everything isn't a good general. tw quote =)

oh and, since i'm the one attacking you, and you'll be the giant square of troops like the roman scipio took to fight the turks, then i'll have the advantage, you play chess? the best chessmasters win by good sacrifcing. 1 cav for 2 lines, and continue on. until you have nothing. i wonder if you'll be able to keep up with that. since cavalry is the ideal exchange piece, for something better.

[Spectre11B]

and once the rear line is in squares, i can peacefully charge your men at the front. vice versa. the tactical advantage of cavalry most beneficial to the supporting infantry is getting the enemy to square.

I dont understand how you can peacefully charge the men in the front. They aren't in squares. You're going to give me the first volley. You're also going to shoot any of your cav that might be in the way.


A basic build I use is
6-9 line
4--5 rifles
4-5 Cav
1 - 2 arty
1-2 skirmishers
1-2 grenadiers

Invariably, since you brought 8 Cav, it would be monetarily impossible for you to have more firepower in regards to your infantry. The only way you could balance the infantry fight would be to kill enough with your cavalry. Line units in squares just dont lose that much to cavalry.

[ccqwert7]

So basically you say that 10 cav is unstoppable?

[Valkierei]

hide in the corner and double stake all around. lol. nah, its very beatable. i won't teach u how though =_=

[TheAussieDigger]

well technically taking 10 cav urself negates the opposition cav, then its down to tactics and micro rather than the build

[Valkierei]

well technically taking 10 cav urself negates the opposition cav, then its down to tactics and micro rather than the build

true true. and if everyone does that, THERE'LL BE LESS LIGHT DRAGOONS FLOODING THE MAP! isn't that a wonderful world! =_=

p.s. im using 8 solid cav only.

[Valkierei]

and fyi, your defense strat is cute. i'll give you the idea to the best defense. listen to the united states past secretary of defense mr. robert mcnamara, the best defense you yankees can have against a nuclear threat is mutually assured destruction. not a barrier of missiles to hit other missiles mid air. waste of resources =.=

[Valkierei]

no, if i force your men into squares, my firepower would be greater. basic knowledge. i use either the dutch, french or british for this style of play. bulks, swiss inf, and fergs + guards. i may have less units but i will be more powerful per unit space. its power per unit space that will win me my battles.

peacefully charge? if you put 2 squares side by side with a hole 10 range wide, i will arrange my cav inside that hole and order them to run there to get to your infantry at the back. cav is that powerful. =)

6-9 line is a lot. but how many can u squeeze without marching them to the flank to meet my army against my short length. quantity vs quality. the never ending debate.

and if you're gonna play arty. my build will be different. i bring 4 horse guard artillery, 4 bulkleys, 1 militia, with the rest being cavalry.

also, please support my thread http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=330362 =)