A question for NI unionists

[nce_wht_guy]

Why are you a Unionist? I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'd just like to try to understand the other side a little better.

[Poach]

Largely comes from Protestantism I believe. Whilst not NI myself I have been there a few times and living in the west of Scotland I know all too well the issues anyway.

The Protestant NI are largely settlers that came over from the UK and thusly want to stay in the UK, the Catholics are mostly native Irish and thus want to rejoin with the RoI.

[nce_wht_guy]

I sincerely hope there's a lot more to their logic than, 'I don't like the pope'.

[Norman Bum]

I sincerely hope there's a lot more to their logic than, 'I don't like the pope'.

The Pope was the largest reason Christianity split in the first place, I don't see why it wouldn't change now.

[nce_wht_guy]

The Pope was the largest reason Christianity split in the first place, I don't see why it wouldn't change now.

What? Who gives a ?
@Lord Consul: The planters settled in Ulster 400 years ago. Whatever they might like to think, they're Irish.

[Yorkshireman]

The planters settled in Ulster 400 years ago. Whatever they might like to think, they're Irish.

Yes, Irish and British, just like English and British or Welsh and British etc.

[Azog 150]

I'm not N.Irish either. But I think some of it stems from the ROI being a fiercly Catholic country. Just look at their abortions laws, their new blashpemy laws etc.


That, plus a liking of being a part of the UK. The UK has more swing in world affairs the the ROI and has a long and proud history (Not saying Ireland doesn't) that they may want to be a part of.



Like I said, I'm not N.Irish but these seem pretty logical reasons and I have seen them used by Unionists before.

[Bovril]

As far as I can tell from reading the history, the split comes more from economics than religion. At least half the IRA in NI during the war of independence was Protestant. But rich people all over Ireland opposed independence because they benefitted from eforcing British rule. There were more people tied economically to Britian in the North East, so NI was created. That's the long and short of it.

[nce_wht_guy]

C'mon, I know you're out there.

[Jingles]

They are out there, but as far as I can tell, in a straight debate, most of them aren't able to throw out a straight argument that isn't based on misguided nationalistic emotion. Hence the silence.

[Yorkshireman]

They are out there, but as far as I can tell, in a straight debate, most of them aren't able to throw out a straight argument that isn't based on misguided nationalistic emotion. Hence the silence.

Oh really ?

You know outside of the internet there's tens of thousands of real people who happen to be Ulster Unionists but they don't spend their lives arguing about it.

My late mother was from Belfast and the vast majority of them still live there. They are Unionists. They are British and wish to stay that way. It's really very simple, there is no argument from their point of view. They've been British for hundreds of years, why would you expect them not to be ?

Whats the misguided nationalistic emotion in that. Any different from misguided Republican/nationalist emotion ?

For them being British is no different than it is for anyone else in the UK.

[Jingles]

Whats the misguided nationalistic emotion in that.

Around here-ish:

They are British and wish to stay that way. It's really very simple, there is no argument from their point of view. They've been British for hundreds of years

The British conquered the Irish originally against their will. This isn't just about the people in Ulster (of which, I might add, not all are Unionists), it's about Ireland as a whole. Northern Ireland was created through Gerrymandering of votes, specifically so that your argument can be used against Republicans. We need to accept that the people of the Rep. of Ireland should have a say in the issue too, and they want Ulster to be returned to the Irish as it rightfully should be. It is to them as Alsace-Lorraine was to France. It's high time the British withdrew their bloodstained claws from Ireland completely, in the interest of Ireland's majority.

[Yorkshireman]

We need to accept that the people of the Rep. of Ireland should have a say in the issue too, and they want Ulster to be returned to the Irish as it rightfully should be.

Wrong. Read up on the Belfast Agreement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Agreement

Ireland dropped its constitutional claim to Ulster in this agreement which was backed by 94% of the Irish population in a referendum.

It's high time the British withdrew their bloodstained claws from Ireland completely, in the interest of Ireland's majority.

Get yourself over to Belfast and tell them that then.

This thread is about Unionists in Ulster. My family are Irish and British and thats how they want to remain, there is no arguement to be had over that.

If people feel so strongly about it they should go join Sinn Fein or the dissident Republicans and do something about it.

[Tiberios]

It's high time the British withdrew their bloodstained claws from Ireland completely, in the interest of Ireland's majority.

Why? It utterly ridicoulus to force a region where the majority wants to remain british, to become part of a nation it does not want to be part of. As long as the majority in N. ireland wants to be British that's their right and they should remain so.

[Poach]

It's high time the British withdrew their bloodstained claws from Ireland completely, in the interest of Ireland's majority.

I suppose we should withdraw our bloodstained claws from Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands as well? After all, other countries had them at some point in the past, who the hell cares about what the current population thinks?

[Lord Consul]

Truth is, Ulster is a very different from the rest of Ireland. The English settlers have become firmly established there, controlling most of the resources and enjoying most of the opportunities. They are not Catholics, they spent the whole long period of English domination of Ireland without having to fear about Black & Tans on the loose raping girls and burning houses.

I can totally respect the reason why they want to remain British. They are British. But we must always bear in mind that this is a wish based on centuries of privilege.

[Azog 150]

Truth is, Ulster is a very different from the rest of Ireland. The English settlers have become firmly established there, controlling most of the resources and enjoying most of the opportunities. They are not Catholics, they spent the whole long period of English domination of Ireland without having to fear about Black & Tans on the loose raping girls and burning houses.
.

The Balck & Tans never existed under English rule. They existed under British rule (A good many of them were drawn from Scotland). Also, they were only around for about 2 years before Irish independence.

I understand your point, they were treated much much better then the Catholic population, but your post is pretty inaacurate.

[saoirse]

British wannabes im afraid not actually british they are basically scots ,they came and ravaged our country and our people and caused hundreds of years of pain,the irish millions of us fled this country but we did not try to take over another country by force and make their citizens second class ,It was not right then and it is not right now.The british upper class have a lot to ans for

[Azog 150]

Northern Ireland was created after the Anglo-Irish Treaty which was signed by Michael Collins, voted for by a majority in the newly created Irish Parliament and finally voted for by a majority of the Irish population when the new Free State gave them a referendum.

If we simply withdrew and went against the majority in Northern Ireland, that would leave a lot of unhappy Unionists and created bloodshed. Do you really think they would just sit back while we went against their democratic wishes?

[Jingles]

Northern Ireland was created after the Anglo-Irish Treaty which was signed by Michael Collins, voted for by a majority in the newly created Irish Parliament and finally voted for by a majority of the Irish population when the new Free State gave them a referendum.

Actually, the majority voted more specifically for the creation of the Irish Free State according to the treaty. They were presented with the choice of some independence, or none. Naturally they chose the former, whilst the majority remained critical of Collins' compromise on the treaty regarding the North.

If we simply withdrew and went against the majority in Northern Ireland, that would leave a lot of unhappy Unionists and created bloodshed. Do you really think they would just sit back while we went against their democratic wishes?

So you've basically got a choice of unhappy unionists or unhappy republicans. The margin between the two groups isn't that big, either. And it's not as if the Republican government hasn't worked out schemes to deal with this potential problem either. It's likely the north would become the equivalent of Quebec in Canada.