How to get the AI to wipe out is own Cavalry...

**Humble Warrior** · January 31, 2010, 08:03 PM

I was in a battle where the AI had cavalry and artullery. We all know the shoddy programming that makes the AI unrealistically knows whenever you change from normal shot to chainshot.

Well I noticed something else. The Ai has a protecting cavalry for its artillery and if you target that cavalry with your arty, it will make a charge for your arty. Sounds fair enough.

Problem is it has no intelligence on when is the right time to do it.

I was attacking. the AI army was miles out -the furthest artillery distance down the map. I zoomed over to where his artillerry was and there was his protecting cavalry too. I targeted his artillery and immediately, the Cavalry magically knew and made a charge towards my arty which was far away as I said before.

It ran infront of its Arty just as they fired, killing 4 of its cavalry.

1. I clicked `Hold fire`. The enemy cavalry magically knows and moves back behind its arty.
2. I wait until his men are nearly finished reloading...
3. I target the enemy arty with my arty.
4. His cavalry charge and get wasted some more by his own arty.
5. I clicked `Hold fire`. the enemy cavalry magically knows and moves back behind its arty.
6. I wait until his men are nearly finished reloading...
7. I target the enemy arty with my arty.
8. His cavalry charge and get wasted some more by his own arty.

Rinse repeat. I got him to destroy his entire own cavalry this way.

This has got to be one of the worst programmed AI I have ever seen. It`s Total Rubbish.

**Lumina** · January 31, 2010, 08:12 PM

Again why 1.0 was better than 1.5. AI was more retarded so they didn't have physic powers.

**LiN** · January 31, 2010, 08:16 PM

I think it's genius. You can win wars without ever having to fire a bullet. It's like diplomacy.

**Lumina** · January 31, 2010, 08:17 PM

Well anyone who plays campaign a lot would of notessed this already, my artillery wiped out a whole mass of infantry by doing this, hold fire and they run away, before I had canister fire, this made for easy pickings.

**Abspara** · January 31, 2010, 08:20 PM

Is this the HAL like AI that you speak of?

**Humble Warrior** · January 31, 2010, 08:47 PM

The thing is, simply making the arty know to `not fire` when friendlies are near would have prevented this.

But there`s so much more that could have been done. i`m sorry, but when I can actually CONTROL the enemy AI by clicking a mouse button twice then that`s when i`ve had enough. Every time I try to give this game a chance, I find something else broken. Only a child can accept this. Something went seriously wrong during the making of the game. I do believe that there was a falling out with the ONLY BAI programmer and it left them in the lurch. Well, don`t just have 1 BAI programmer for a start. they should never have all their eggs in one basket.

I just get reminded every time about what Johan of paradox said about Empire`s AI. He saw the Emperor had no clothes right off and was spot on.

Scratch this Total War game as the worst in the series. CA know it all too well and it`s why they`ve abandoned it.

Even the darthmod can`t cover the myriad of holes in this game.

Back to CIV4 or Gal Civ II. Seems like I`ll never get my money`s worth out of ETW. That`s £40 you owe me, CA and SEGA, and a decade of loyalty.

**grandpa** · January 31, 2010, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Humble Warrior

I was in a battle where the AI had cavalry and artullery. We all know the shoddy programming that makes the AI unrealistically knows whenever you change from normal shot to chainshot.

Well I noticed something else. The Ai has a protecting cavalry for its artillery and if you target that cavalry with your arty, it will make a charge for your arty. Sounds fair enough.

Problem is it has no intelligence on when is the right time to do it.

I was attacking. the AI army was miles out -the furthest artillery distance down the map. I zoomed over to where his artillerry was and there was his protecting cavalry too. I targeted his artillery and immediately, the Cavalry magically knew and made a charge towards my arty which was far away as I said before.

It ran infront of its Arty just as they fired, killing 4 of its cavalry.

1. I clicked `Hold fire`. The enemy cavalry magically knows and moves back behind its arty.
2. I wait until his men are nearly finished reloading...
3. I target the enemy arty with my arty.
4. His cavalry charge and get wasted some more by his own arty.
5. I clicked `Hold fire`. the enemy cavalry magically knows and moves back behind its arty.
6. I wait until his men are nearly finished reloading...
7. I target the enemy arty with my arty.
8. His cavalry charge and get wasted some more by his own arty.

Rinse repeat. I got him to destroy his entire own cavalry this way.

This has got to be one of the worst programmed AI I have ever seen. It`s Total Rubbish.

that is hilarious. thanks i really needed that good laugh...i could just see it lol lmao. typically i jus shoot thier cavalry before they get to me...thats too funny.

**Lumina** · January 31, 2010, 09:25 PM

Ya like Take Command series or Sid Meier's Gettysburg? really good line up and shoot up eachother games, units wouldn't shoot through friendlies including artillery.

**SMIDSY** · January 31, 2010, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Lumina

Ya like Take Command series or Sid Meier's Gettysburg? really good line up and shoot up eachother games, units wouldn't shoot through friendlies including artillery.

Sometimes you need to fire into the mob though. If you got a square of infantry with 300 guys swarming it, sure, fire canister into them. Consider your men sacrifices to the Blood God.

**Lumina** · January 31, 2010, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by SMIDSY

Sometimes you need to fire into the mob though. If you got a square of infantry with 300 guys swarming it, sure, fire canister into them. Consider your men sacrifices to the Blood God.

American Civil War was different than Europe some Generals cried for how many of their men they lost.

I don't think an officer could live with himself if he ordered cansister shotinto a friendly formation just to hit an enemy formation as well. Plus square formation didn't really exist during the American Civil War, Cavalry pretty much were not used for anything but scouting because they were expensive, and there were almost no open field battles during the American Civil War, there were fields, but not really big enough to make great cavalry charges, neither army could muster enough horses to really have the massive cavalry formations seen in Europian battles, most cavalry in the American Civil War performed like Dragoons, either run around with a revolver or carbine, Carbines used during the American Civil War were commonly breech loaders making them much easier to fire and reload, it was very common for cavalry to dismount before engaging and enter into skirmishing fights with line infantry if anything, or were used to attack supply trains *not real trains it's a figure of speech* or like some CSA cavalry raid cities, loot and plunder to get their name in the paper.

Actually I use dragoons much like Cavalry from the American Civil War, I don't run and gun with them, I even order them to hold fire if I know they will get into firing range of an enemy when passing too close, sometimes they will shoot a friendly dragoon regiment... I often dismount, and block enemy advances with dragoons, or delay their advance or attack the flank, they fire much quicker dismounted, AI is too stupid to charge on them so... lol if I need to run I sprint them back to where their horses are and mount up and go likethe wind. If i know they will need to run a lot I leave them mounted, and one have fire, while other regiment retreats, then stop, hold fire until 2nd regiment is clear and retreating out of the line of fire, then fire, repeat, repeat.

I remember when I once made my own fire and advance with two line regiments, one sitting behind the other. First regiment fires, then I click hold fire, advance 2nd up, click fire at will, then hold fire, advance first back up. repeat until in suitable charging range. But that was for fun, it was really a waste of time but they were behind a brick wall, and i felt liek goofing off.

**daniu** · February 01, 2010, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by SMIDSY

Sometimes you need to fire into the mob though. If you got a square of infantry with 300 guys swarming it, sure, fire canister into them.

Exactly.
If I tell my units to fire, they damn better do so, be there friendlies in the way or not.
Units with Fire at Will have my implicit order, or I would turn it off.

**Al Bundy** · January 31, 2010, 09:53 PM

Hey Humble I have only noticed that in DMUC - The whole cav guarding the arty right in front of the big guns - I dont think it happens in vanilla can anybody correct me?

**Timefool** · January 31, 2010, 11:58 PM

So now we are finding ways to abuse the AI's cheats? This is terrible, more so than it was before.

**Lumina** · February 01, 2010, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by thedudederek

So now we are finding ways to abuse the AI's cheats? This is terrible, more so than it was before.

I find abusing the AI in that mannor making the battle drag on and take longer. Normally I don't order my guns to hold fire unless I plan on moving infantry in front of them after I decided I did enough shelling of the enemy formations or fort, or the enemy was about to get close enough to charge, and they already blasted away their canister shot rounds.

**Chyeaaaa111** · February 01, 2010, 12:01 AM

HumbleWarrior, this is the benchmark AI for strategy games!! Its incredible!! CA clearly has the best AI programmers on staff.

**Bloodlut** · February 01, 2010, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by Humble Warrior

Rinse repeat. I got him to destroy his entire own cavalry this way.

This has got to be one of the worst programmed AI I have ever seen. It`s Total Rubbish.

I have to say, that this is a pretty cool trick, however i do not think that the guy who programmed the AI would have factored in players doing this weird cannon hold fire, fire, thing.... So i don't think that its the worst AI ever, infact i like the AI, like dogs to the slaughter......

BUT however, i did indeed like your Total Rubbish bit, very lol ^_^

**Bloodlut** · February 01, 2010, 03:28 AM

Yes indeed, sacrifices are needed, and in the grandscale of things, if good men have to die for the protection of your nation, then so be it ^_^

**Blofeld2k** · February 01, 2010, 04:14 AM

Amazing. Similar story:

I once got sieged and the AI had about 5 artillery units, 4 cavalry units and 2 infantry units (what a siege army btw). The AI decided to attack with the inf first, not waiting for the arty to destroy the walls etc. This, which goes without saying, resulted in total failure and the inf retreated.

The AI arty then continued to fire at my walls, I guess intending to rush with the cavalry. Ok, not to bad of a plan, the only problem was that he consistently positioned the cavalry units in front of his own arty. After about 30 mins game time the last remaining cavalry unit retreated, all because of friendly fire. I never fired a single shot at his cavalry units. "Close Victory".

Mike Simpson et al. must be proud of their creation.