Would intelligent design still be feasible without a God?

[Helm]

What I'm thinking about is extraterrestrials, which originated by entirely naturistic means much like ourselves, living in another dimension bringing our universe into existence through the Big Bang via super advanced technology of some description.



Or is this essentially what Scientology is all about?

[empr guy]

i have no idea about scientology but it probaly would be possible

[Manco]

It's possible yes, and that's the excuse most ID proponents give to hide their obvious theistic agenda.

One could even say most domesticated animals and many fruits and vegetables are the result of ID, with humans being the intelligent designer.

[Helm]

A non-supernatural ID would in fact be more likely than a supernatural God because we know for a fact that non-supernatural ID's do in exist for certain as we're an example of one. And it also seems more likely than everything coming about the way it is purely by random chance alone. So you could make a good case for this. Though of course you have the issue of where these aliens come from, perhaps a parallel much like our own but then you have the issue of infinite regression.

[Fiyenyaa]

It may be possible, but it ony pushes back the question of origin: how and by what process did the aliens who created life come about?

[Helm]

It may be possible, but it ony pushes back the question of origin: how and by what process did the aliens who created life come about?

Two possibilities could be they exist in a state independent from time or it's on some kind of infinite cycle of creation.

[MaximiIian]

Two possibilities could be they exist in a state independent from time

Then why not just call them gods?

or it's on some kind of infinite cycle of creation.

Then there'd be no need for an intelligent designer.

[Helm]

Then why not just call them gods?

I suppose you could if you really wanted to.

Then there'd be no need for an intelligent designer.

Unless it's necessary to create intelligent life in order to create more intelligent life in order for the cycle to perpetuate, remove intelligent life and cycle breaks apart.

[Manco]

non-intelligent ID

That's a bit of a contradiction. I presume you meant non-theistic ID?

[Helm]

That's a bit of a contradiction. I presume you meant non-theistic ID?

That was a typo, but thinking about it a non-intelligent ID could possibly work, in the same as a termite hive technically has a non-intelligent ID.

[hellheaven1987]

That was a typo, but thinking about it a non-intelligent ID could possibly work, in the same as a termite hive technically has a non-intelligent ID.

That is just an ant nest.

Although saying ants are non-intelligent is an insult to them.

[Helm]

That is just an ant nest.

Although saying ants are non-intelligent is an insult to them.

Individually ants aren't intelligent at all they just react to stimuli like any insect. But together they can create structures that in their scale rival human cities in terms of their sophistication.

[cfmonkey45]

What I'm thinking about is extraterrestrials, which originated by entirely naturistic means much like ourselves, living in another dimension bringing our universe into existence through the Big Bang via super advanced technology of some description.



Or is this essentially what Scientology is all about?

If our universe was created by aliens from another universe, then how did their universe get created? Same cycle?

Doesn't match up to Occam's Razor, but that just deals with plausibility and probability. When I turned on my car this morning to go to Church, it could have been out of gas, but thankfully the invisible visitors from Omicron Persei 8 could have filled it with an experimental fuel to keep my car going as part of a science experiment, and then, when it worked and while I was in service, they could have siphoned it out again and replaced it with standard gasoline.




By the way, with Scientology (my mom's friend is Scientologist) they believe as core tenets that sickness, disease, and what religions would call "sin" is the result of alien souls, and that if we use the power of will in our thoughts, we can theoretically overcome any sickness/malady. But only for the enlightened.

[Banana Jelly]

It can't, if our Earth was made in coincidence.

[Musthavename]

If this were true, then wouldn't the aliens fit a description of "Gods"? Not omnipotent, omniscient or omni-whatever beings, but you could technically define them as Gods.

Really it all hinges on the technicality of your definition. To us, they would be Gods. The question would then fall to wether they themselves have a superior being or not.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I suppose. But people would call it a God, or a demiurge.

[Helm]

I suppose. But people would call it a God, or a demiurge.

"A supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in ...
deity: any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force"


They still wouldn't fit in with the standard definition of a god is though.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Whose?

[Helm]

If you can find a definition of God these aliens would fit. They wouldn't even be the first cause or absolute originators because they in turn were created by the very same natural laws we were, and also as a result they wouldn't be in any way supernatural or separate from nature. They probably wouldn't particularly want to be worshiped or offer anything in return for being worshiped either.

[removeduser_487563287433]

So basically you've just put n steps between us and a God if intelligent design is correct.

Well done, Helm.