Fascism

[Prodigal]

I was thinking about this. What is so wrong with fascism? Why do people hate it? It lifted the backwaters of Germany and Italy into real superpowers. I'm considering becoming fascist. I'm talking real fascism. No racism involved. Convince me it isn't good. I was particullarly looking at the iron guard in Romania without the anti-semitism and occasional heretical beliefs. I like how they imbued Orthodox Christianity deeply in it. But that isn't what I want the thread to be about, so don't turn this into a religious thread, I won't reply. Please, discuss.

[s.rwitt]

The military has no business running a government.

[hellheaven1987]

The military has no business running a government.

Funny enough both Facists and Nazis were not seen as military organization by their own military force; Wehrmechat commanders generally viewed Hitler and his cowboys purely politicians and never military personals.

[Jabberwock]

I was thinking about this. What is so wrong with fascism? Why do people hate it? It lifted the backwaters of Germany and Italy into real superpowers. I'm considering becoming fascist. I'm talking real fascism. No racism involved. Convince me it isn't good. I was particullarly looking at the iron guard in Romania without the anti-semitism and occasional heretical beliefs. I like how they imbued Orthodox Christianity deeply in it. But that isn't what I want the thread to be about, so don't turn this into a religious thread, I won't reply. Please, discuss.

And republicanism made America the hegemonic superpower. Why aren't you becoming a republican?

EDIT: And look where those fascist German and Italian superpowers are now...

[s.rwitt]

Funny enough both Facists and Nazis were not seen as military organization by their own military force; Wehrmechat commanders generally viewed Hitler and his cowboys purely politicians and never military personals.

Right, but that doesn't change the reality of what they were. There were generals where governors should have been to bring in a TW referance.

[bushbush]

germany and italy weren't exactly backwaters before fascism. Yes they both were hit hard by great depression, but other countries recovered without falling into extremist ideology. Your logic is flawed.

[hellheaven1987]

germany and italy weren't exactly backwaters before fascism. Yes they both were hit hard by great depression, but other countries recovered without falling into extremist ideology. Your logic is flawed.

Italy was under Facist not because Great Depression but WWI; instead, Italy actually avoided Great Depression because of Facist, which gave even more international reputation for Facism.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

germany and italy weren't exactly backwaters before fascism. Yes they both were hit hard by great depression, but other countries recovered without falling into extremist ideology. Your logic is flawed.

Germany was the 1st country out of the depression though...

[Prodigal]

But in the context that it's not skewed by anti semitism, and all tyrannical control, I wonder.

Exactly, right? Though I believe it willl never happen, mostly because people see fascism as naturally anti-semetic and tyranical. I believe that an effective dictator could gain the support of his people and inspire patriotism and strong morale in them. Plus, if you have life control, you can try something new and see how it works, instantly, because you have nobody in your way.

Why aren't you becoming a republican?

I already am. I don't believe that their is one true dream government though.

germany

The Weimar Republic was a complete backwater. Their economy was virtually non-existant.

[bushbush]

The Weimar Republic was a complete backwater. Their economy was virtually non-existant.

so did all countries recover using fascism? then why not following other ideologies? at least other ways didn't lead to utter destruction of germany after ww2.

your logic is ed up.

[Jabberwock]

I already am. I don't believe that their is one true dream government though.

So you want to jump from republicanism to fascism? That's a quantum leap. There must be something you don't like that you want to change. What is there that you don't like that would require a dictatorship?

It's true there is no one true form of government. There's only the most effective and accountable to the people. Republicanism has proved itself to be so in these modern times.

[Bovril]

If you are really "considering becoming fascist" then I recomend that you read fascist political theory. Trudging through Mein Kamph is hardly necessary, but there are several interesting Fascist theorists who should be read by aspiring modern Fascists. Julius Evola is perhaps the most intellectually respectable of the dediated Fascists, and Heidegger is without doubt the greatest intellectual to have supported Fascism. Other interesting thinkers include Giovanni Gentile, Gabriele D'Annunzio, Ezra Pound, the various Japanese Showa state philosophers and so on.

I should note that I am resolutely opposed to Fascism, but that I also respect people with intellectual rigour who I disagree with more than intellectually lazy people who I agree with, so I'm always happy to help some one find texts they are interested in.

[Tiberios]

The Weimar Republic was a complete backwater. Their economy was virtually non-existant.

It so was so because of WW1. Plus the depression made it even worse. Besides the Weimar republic actually did make some economic recovery before the depression.

[RomanSoldier9001]

It so was so because of WW1. Plus the depression made it even worse. Besides the Weimar republic actually did make some economic recovery before the depression.

They coul done better if they werent so pressed by external(allies) and internal affairs(communist revolts,rise of rigth wing groups freikoprs that were sometimes suported by gov.then abondemened,nationalistic revolts etc)

[Georgy Zhukov]

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men" John Dalberg-Acton, 1st Baron Acton

[Prodigal]

so did all countries recover using fascism? then why not following other ideologies? at least other ways didn't lead to utter destruction of germany after ww2.

your logic is ed up.

Other countries recovered, but they didn't recover as quickly and become such an industrial and economic superpower as Germany did. The utter destruction of Germany was a a result of Hitler's incompetence in getting Germany into so many wars. They would have still been successful if they didn't get into any wars.

Do you think Britain would've lasted as long as Germany did if France, Russia, Germany and the US declared war on them?

Cussing isn't needed to prove a point. I think your logic has a lot of missing pieces in it.

[bushbush]

Other countries recovered, but they didn't recover as quickly and become such an industrial and economic superpower as Germany did. The utter destruction of Germany was a a result of Hitler's incompetence in getting Germany into so many wars. They would have still been successful if they didn't get into any wars.

they only became a superpower because they decided to arm for war and invade others. That was not sustaninable and a war ultimately brought the destruction of Germany. That's the fatal flaw of fascism, it's expansionist.

Do you think Britain would've lasted as long as Germany did if France, Russia, Germany and the US declared war on them?

I dont even know what this part means lol.

[swabian]

Fascism is totalitarian for a reason. A government which is so strongly empowered, like a fascistic regime, needs and uses this power to realise very distinct ideological goals, else there would be no reason for such an empowerment in the first place. Fascism is a revolutionary movement, it intends to change things in a certain way and to force this change on society without ethical limitations or consensus. There might be the absurd hypothetical option to have absolute tyrannical power without using it or to use it to simulate a normal democratic state and nothing more, but such a thing could be realised much more cost effective with a real democracy (especially cost effective regarding loss of human life and also minimal risk for the movement that actually tries to achieve totalitarian power for the heck of it). Fascism emerges out of the need to brake existing ethical norms and for this purpose to brake power limitations.

Other countries recovered, but they didn't recover as quickly and become such an industrial and economic superpower as Germany did.

The national debt by 1939 was immense, the war was thus an inevitable necessity. The plan was simply to cover the debts by robbery.

[Gauvin]

You can never be a real fascist until you, and other armed uniformed goons come and beat me up for not being a fascist.

I'll define fascism simply as believing that the state is your religion, and that servitude to it is the purpose of your existence.

[hellheaven1987]

Being a fascist is believing that the state is your religion, and that servitude to it is the purpose of your existence.

And being a Socialist...