Atheism + Paganism= Pantheism

[Helm]

For anyone asking about or confused by the apparent contadiction in my sig.

Heres a link what Pantheism is all about.

http://www.pantheism.net/

[Manco]

Except that's not atheism of course. But don't let that stop you.

[Helm]

Except that's not atheism of course. But don't let that stop you.

It doesn't involve any (anthropomorphic/personal) gods or belief in the supernatural (as in anything science can never explain).

[roy34543]

It doesn't involve any gods or belief in the supernatural.

According to wikipedia, its the belief that everything is god.
Thats no different from beleving that god is the invisible man, zeus or a spaghetti monster.

[Helm]

According to wikipedia, its the belief that everything is god.
Thats no different from beleving that god is the invisible man, zeus or a spaghetti monster.

But we know for a fact that everything does exist.

[roy34543]

But we know for a fact that everything does exist.

That doesnt actaully matter at all.
You could worship a statue and it would still be theism, you know it exists. THe difference however is worshipping and apathy, if your apathetic you know it exists, and you dont care. If your worshipping it then it means you are in some way treating it as if its some sort of diety or has supernatural powers, or not even that, but your jsut worshipping it aimlessly, there doesnt have to be a reason.
It would be atheism if you said "Yeah all of existance is there, its nice, lets move on" Pantheism is the specific belief that the entirity of existance is equivalant to a diety that you are worshipping(Indeed, its the belief its the same thign)
Ie , You can believe that the traditional abrahamic god exists, and that the earth exists. Theres nothing making those beliefs contradictory. Pantheism is the belief that there isnt a god, because that same god is all of existance. This god representing the combined existance of everything is just the god that replaces the traditional god(s)

On top of that I could make a rather annoying argument (I think sophistic might be thw word, but not sure) that you dont really know that all of existance exists, you cant exactly prove it. You just remember its existance and your belief is that this existance is real.
dont let that distract you from the above though

[Phier]

Atheism + paganism = excuse for some wild sex parties.

[empr guy]

Atheism + paganism = excuse for some wild sex parties.

now thats my kind of religion!

and if you (going on whats been posted) believe everything is god and god does not exist, wouldnt that mean you everything does not exist, and therefor nothing exists, including you?

[Helm]

now thats my kind of religion!

and if you (going on whats been posted) believe everything is god and god does not exist, wouldnt that mean you everything does not exist, and therefor nothing exists, including you?

It's more the concept that everything and everyone shares some kind of divine unity, it's a bit vague and wishy-washy but there's something appealing about the idea for me. The purely atheistic notion that everything is random and meaningless always seemed a bit shallow to me.

In believing in a real God you can annoy both theists and atheists alike so that's a plus point.

[Manco]

If you think god is everything, you still believe in a god, ergo not atheism.

[roy34543]

It's more the case that it's generally impossible for me to ever believe in any form of supernatural deity or follow any faith based belief system, but I still understand the general concept of spirituality. I quite like Buddhism for instance even it's not something I would fully convert to as I disagree with some of it's philosophies/principals. Though for religions that don't involve supernatural gods and blind faith there isn't a great deal else to choose from.

In all honesty you are sort of ruining your point. You dont really have to chose in a organized religion if you dont want to. An organization devoted to pantheism "is" an organized religion.
There is a big difference between believing in organized religion and believing in god, Personally I believe there is a god but only in the past and I do not believe in any organized religion.

Even if theis was all some computer simulation like the Matrix it would still exist, even if there is a layer of true existence which is external from it.

Then it would only prove that pantheism is blind belief. Because you dont "Know" the world exists. In other words, its similar to any other religion.

[Banana Jelly]

How is Einstein a pantheist? Misleading info on that website. Einstein was a jew, and he wasn't even an atheist.

[Helm]

How is Einstein a pantheist? Misleading info on that website. Einstein was a jew, and he wasn't even an atheist.

According to Richard Dawkins Einstein was an atheist who believed in God as a poetic metaphor for the deeper meaning at the root of all things. He happened to live in a time before the term pantheist was coined.

[Banana Jelly]

According to Richard Dawkins Einstein was an atheist who believed in God as a poetic metaphor for the deeper meaning at the root of all things. He happened to live in a time before the term pantheist was coined.

"I'm NOT an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist.
We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God."

-Quote from Einstein

[empr guy]

atheists dont believe life was completley random, so theres a plus for us, but pretty much everything else i can think atm is a bit random

[Helm]

atheists dont believe life was completley random, so theres a plus for us, but pretty much everything else i can think atm is a bit random

You have all your non-random scientific processes such as evolution and the formation of stars and planets but no real explanation as to why the universe should be the way it is, other than pure random chance. I'm more inclinded to believe that there is a very good reason for universe being the way it is and a reason as to why we are here.

[Dr. Croccer]

Patheism doesn't have to be Pagan. Many Pagans are Theistic. An Atheist Pantheist is probably an oxymoron though. Pantheist acknowledge that some sort of supernatural force exists that interacts with the natural world, i.e. a God, but formulized differently. Atheists don't believe in God. Though it's awfully complicated and I could be wrong.

[Helm]

Patheism doesn't have to be Pagan. Many Pagans are Theistic. An Atheist Pantheist is probably an oxymoron though.

Paganism was always about the reverence of nature (the universe) and the gods were just seen as aspects of that divine nature that surrounded them, in a way similar to Hinduism which you could possibly call a Pagan religion. It's really just a matter of cutting out the middle men, the supernatural gods in this case, and going straight to the main source.

Pantheist acknowledge that some sort of supernatural force exists that interacts with the natural world, i.e. a God, but formulized differently. Atheists don't believe in God. Though it's awfully complicated and I could be wrong.

I think Panentheists are more the ones who believe in the supernatural force that interacts with the natural world so they're a slightly different thing.

[Phier]

Oh god, not another thread trying to claim Einstein was a devote Jew or deist or something for using poetic language about the universe and ignoring everything else he wrote on the subject.

Anyways he called Judaism childish at age 12, and did not believe in a personal god ala, allah, Christ, etc etc etc.

[Helm]

There is the fact that Einstein never actually called himself an atheist when that particular term was in use. But he didn't seem to believe in any omnipotent or supernatural Gods.