Irish Government condemned for lying to women about abortion

[removeduser_487563287433]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...eland-abortion

Human Rights Watch has condemned the Irish Government for providing misleading or incorrect information about abortion. Agencies have told women that they risk becoming infertile, require a hysterectomy or a colostomy bag. Emotional blackmail has been used to exploit pregnant women, showing ultrasound images and pictures of mothers. The Government limits information on legal abortion services and refuses to crack down on "rogue" agencies that pretend to be unwanted pregnancy support groups, but are in fact designed to put pressure on women to keep their children at any cost.

The punishment for abortion in Ireland is life imprisonment. At least 4,600 Irish women had an abortion in the United Kingdom in 2008.

Absolutely damning stuff. Ireland needs to become more secular.

[Fiyenyaa]

The Catholic Church in Ireland, lying?
That's the first time I've heard of that ever happening. Oh wait, my mistake - it appears they do so habitually.

[removeduser_487563287433]

This isn't the Church, it's the Government, although recent scandals and legislation might make you wonder exactly where the difference lies.

[Fiyenyaa]

This isn't the Church, it's the Government, although recent scandals and legislation might make you wonder exactly where the difference lies.

Ah, I made a snap judgement - given the history the church has with cover-ups, I don't think I'm entirely unjustified either.
Fair enough though.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Although I am positive the Catholic Church is also lying to Irish women about abortion. They are certainly doing so in the UK.

[Phier]

Women have been told they may become infertile, require a hysterectomy or possibly need a colostomy bag after an abortion by agencies that target women seeking advice about unwanted pregnancies, says the report.

Dr. Ferrets, this is all true. They may also suffer sepsis, and around 8 deaths have been reported, though I think there was one in NYC last week as well, so make that 9.

They may be over emphasizing the negative potential, and my guess is thats exactly what they do, but the potential is real and not a lie.

But being the Guardian this type of stance is to be expected.

It will be interesting to see if Ireland can maintain their ban on abortions, if they do perhaps they will be the only country in Europe that doens't need to import foreign labor to run their depopulated countries in the coming decades.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Anything to back this up, because the Guardian does not seem to agree with your assessment? The Guardian may have a stance, it doesn't print outright lies.

[Phier]

Anything to back this up, because the Guardian does not seem to agree with your assessment? The Guardian may have a stance, it doesn't print outright lies.

Now being abortion I had to sift through a lot of unacceptable sites. I decided to go to those which would be in general 'pro' to be fair.

http://health.nytimes.com/health/gui.../overview.html

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Risks

Risks of surgical abortion include:

• Damage to the womb or cervix
• Emotional or psychological distress
• Excessive bleeding
• infection of the uterus or fallopian tubes

The risks of surgical abortion increase as a woman gets further along in her pregnancy. That's why it's important to make a decision about abortion as early as possible, when the procedure is safest.
The risks for any anesthesia are:

• Reactions to medications
• Problems breathing

The risks for any surgery are:

• Bleeding
• Infection

Call your health care provider if you have had a surgical abortion and you have:

• Excessive vaginal bleeding (may lead to shock)
• Continued pain or pregnancy symptoms (possible sign of ectopic pregnancy)
• Signs of infection, including persistent fever, vaginal drainage with a foul odor, vaginal drainage that looks like pus, or abdominal pain or tenderness

http://www.drhern.com/surgicalabrisks.htm

Is a very in depth look at it, but more medical, good reading.

[removeduser_487563287433]

So basically not infertility, hysterectomies or needing a colostomy bag? Cheers, Phier!

I'm not against educating against the medical realities of abortion, obviously, but what the Irish Government is doing is allowing people to invent fictitious ones. That's grossly immoral, as I hope you realise.

[Phier]

So basically not infertility, hysterectomies or needing a colostomy bag? Cheers, Phier!

I'm not against educating against the medical realities of abortion, obviously, but what the Irish Government is doing is allowing people to invent fictitious ones. That's grossly immoral, as I hope you realise.

Dr. Ferrets, what do you think happens in the case of a complication with damage to the uterus?

Infertility due to fetal bones being left in after an abortion.. BTW I never heard of this one and its horrifying.

http://www.ijfs.ir/library/upload/ar...Article118.pdf

Septic abortion

A septic abortion is a spontaneous or therapeutic/artificial abortion complicated by a pelvic infection.

Pathophysiology

Infection usually begins as endometritis and involves the endometrium and any retained products of conception. If not treated, the infection may spread further into the myometrium and parametrium. Parametritis may progress into peritonitis. The patient may develop bacteremia and sepsis at any stage of septic abortion. Pelvic inflammatory disease (PID) is the most common complication of septic abortion.
Mortality/Morbidity

• Septic abortion was once the leading cause of maternal death around the world. The condition remains a primary cause of maternal mortality in the developing world, mostly as a result of illegal abortions.
• In the US, mortality from septic abortion rapidly declined after legalization of abortion. Death now occurs in less than 1 per 100,000 abortions. Figures for most European countries are similar to US rates.
• The risk of death from septic abortion rises with the progression of gestation.

Hysterectomy risks

http://www.wdxcyber.com/nbleed13.htm

What are some of the rare or unusual complications that are possible after hysterectomy? Many of the complications mentioned above are uncommon. There are some even rarer problems that may occur.

• drug induced blood dyscrasias (anemia, low platelets) (7)
• massive hemorrhage resulting in death
• bowel injury requiring colostomy
• bladder atony and inability to void urine
• liver failure due to anesthetic complications
• chronic incisional pain or drainage due to suture granulomas, endometriosis or foreign body reaction
• abdominal compartment syndrome (decreased blood flow to intraabdominal organs)(8)
• kidney shutdown due to renal artery spasm (9)
• abdominal or vaginal herniation of the bowels (evisceration) through the incisions (10)
• and many other rare and uncommon events

Basically if you damage the uterous or get an infection in the uterus BOTH potentials from abortions, BAD things can happen. It is rare, and as I said I assume they are over stating it, but its NOT a lie.

[removeduser_487563287433]

What an own goal, phier. "caused primarily by illegal abortions". A clear argument against criminalising abortion. You are still evading the topic of this thread, that the Irish government has been accused by a human rights organisation of spreading misinformation and emotionally blackmailing vulnerable women. You support that?

[Phier]

What an own goal, phier. "caused primarily by illegal abortions". A clear argument against criminalising abortion. You are still evading the topic of this thread, that the Irish government has been accused by a human rights organisation of spreading misinformation and emotionally blackmailing vulnerable women. You support that?

Just admit you were wrong.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Um, I'm not?

[Phier]

Um, I'm not?

Ferrets: 'Irish government lies'
Phier: 'They overstate the truth, not lies'
Ferrets: 'Links'
Phier: links
Ferrets: 'It didn't spell it out for me'
Phier: spells it out for you.
Ferrets: See illegal abortions are bad, do you support this!
Phier

[removeduser_487563287433]

Great phier, thanks for the prolife routine, very illuminating, I'm sure.

[Phier]

Great phier, thanks for the prolife routine, very illuminating, I'm sure.

Do you really not get it, or just to proud to admit you were wrong?

I am sure, without a doubt that more women died due to illegal abortions than legal ones, but that was not the issue at hand was it?

I am not pro life, I like the fact that left wingers kill their babies over right wingers by 2-1 or so. Its called the abortion gap and its cost the dems about 5 million votes since Roe v Wade. This on top of the child gap (left wingers have less children, often none) is icing on the long term cake.

So while I find abortion morally wrong, I fully support peoples rights to voluntary eugenics, which is exactly what abortion is. More stuff for my kids.

[Ó Cathasaigh]

Absolutely damning stuff. Ireland needs to become more secular.

That is not for a non-citizen to decide. They need to do what they want to do.

[removeduser_487563287433]

That is not for a non-citizen to decide. They need to do what they want to do.

While continuing to export their pregnant daughters to "non-citizens" presumably.

[Fiyenyaa]

That is not for a non-citizen to decide. They need to do what they want to do.

You don't have to be a citizen of a country in order to criticise it.

[Ó Cathasaigh]

You don't have to be a citizen of a country in order to criticise it.

Ok then. Britain needs to become more Islamic. Can't wait!!!