Albanian myth making of history

[Carpathian Wolf]

I recently had some encounters with some Albanian nationals writing about their great country which irked to remind me of my west balkan studies of the past years. For most of my life I had no idea what Albania was, where it was and why I should care. I could say much the same for most of the western balkans. Now anyone who's had a conversation with me concerning the more modern history of the western balkans, that is the former Yugoslavia and Albania, knows my opinion. But I am not here to re-hash that discussion, but rather to jump into the 'depth' of Albanian history. You may be surprised to learn some interesting things that Albanians have espoused to me such as Albanians being the direct descendants of Illyrians.

For example did you know Alexander the Great was Albanian? Sure because his mother was from Epirus and the Epirotes were Albanian...even though Epirus means jack nothing in Albanian and actually does mean something in Greek. Nevermind that Alexander beat the whelping living merde out of the Illyrians and conscripted them as slingers and the likes for his armies.

Did you know that Aristotle was also Albanian? Sure because Macedonians were just another Illyrian tribe even though we know the Macedonians claimed Dorian heritage, we know who the ruling monarchy of Macedonia was. But facts aren't important.

Next did you know Constantine the Great was Albanian? Yep. He was born in Nis...in Dacia Ripensis. But i'm sure the Romans actually meant that was Illyria which had ceased to exist as a individual state for hundreds of years prior.

These are just three of the many great historical figures which Albanians will tell you that are Albanian. Do not concern yourself with things like facts.


Doing away with the obvious dry humor I came across this interesting article.

http://www.last.fm/user/sinisha/jour...ptar_forgeries

>>Albanians have NOTHING to do with Illyrians<<

Very true, the Albanians have absolutely NO connection to the ancient Illyrians based on latest research, we can most probably find their origin somewhere in the Caucasus.

Some facts to consider:
a)The Albanians were never mentioned in Byzantine, (not even of the works by Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus), Arab, Armenian or any other texts before the 12th cent.

b)Language:
Albanian is classified as an IE language only because no one has been able to classify it into any other group, and this is because no one has yet studied all the Caucasus languages.
Albanian might have IE sounding words, but its basic structure and syntax are more similar to Chechen and Udish than to any IE language. Many Albanian words do sound Indo-European, because Albanian has borrowed over 80% of its vocabulary, more than any other European language.
The Chechen language is similar to Albanian. They both have similar grammar and similar sounds such as SQ, PSHQ, which are not common in any IE languages, but are very common in Caucasus languages like Chechenian.
The Albanians call themselves "Shqip-tari". This name is not Indo-European in origin and contains in it the Ural-Altaic suffix "ar" or "tar". Much like: "Khaz-AR", "Av-AR", "Magy-AR", "Bulg-AR", "Hung-AR", "Ta-TAR" - "Ship-TAR". see:
CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA
ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA

c)Their alphabet interestingly enough, had Arabic letters until 1908 when the alphabet they use today was adopted.

d)The most ancient loanwords from Latin in Albanian have the phonetic form of eastern Balkan Latin, i.e. of proto-Romanian, and not of western Balkan Latin, i.e. of old Dalmatian Latin. Albanian, therefore, did not take its borrowings from Vulgar Latin as spoken in Illyria.

e)The Adriatic coast was not part of the primitive home of the Albanians, because the maritime terminology of Albanian is not their own, but is borrowed from different languages.

f)Another indication against local Albanian origin is the insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords.

g)Just a few, of the many identical place-names between Albania and Caucasus:
Albo-Arnauti -Caucasus- Arnauti
(Turks and Balkan peoples call Albanians by this name; likely from arch. Turk: Arran)
Albo-Bushati - Caucasus-Bushati (also the name of an Albanian tribe)
Albo-Baboti - Caucasus-Baboti
Albo-Baka -Caucasus-Bako
Albo-Ballagati - Caucasus-Balagati
Albo-Ballaj,Balli - Caucasus- Bali
Albo-Bashkimi - Caucasus-Bashkoi
Albo-Bathore- Caucasus- Batharia
Albo-Bater- Caucasus- Bataris
Albo-Geg - Caucasus-Gegi, Gegeni, Geguti (Term used by Albanians in their language to denote their brethre north of the Shkumbi R.)
Albo-Demir Kapia - Caucasus-Demir Kapia (Turkish term: "iron gates"; term by which Turks refered to the Caspian Sea or arch: Albanian Sea)
Albo-Kish, Kisha... - Caucasus-Kish (Eight different toponyms in Albania begin with "kish")
Albo-Kurata,Kuratem,Kurateni(villages)-Caucasus-Kura (river) (Nine different toponyms in Albania begin with "Kura")
Albo-Luginasi - Caucasus-Lugini
Albo-Rusani - Caucasus-Rusian
Albo-Sheshani, Shoshani, Shashani - Caucasus-Shashani
Albo-Sheshaj, Sheshi - Caucasus-Sheshleti
Albo-Skalla - Caucasus-Skaleri
Albo-Shiptari Shipyaki, Shkhepa, - Caucasus-Shkepi
Albo-Shkoder - Caucasus-Shkeder, Shked, Shkoda
Albo-Shekulli - Caucasus-Shekouli
Albo-Skuraj - Caucasus-Skuria

h) The fact that Albanian is totally alien to the Illyrian language based on the Messapic inscriptions found in tombs. So we must come to the conclusion that they either came from a different location (Caucasus theory) or the Illyrian tribes had absolutely NO ability of communicating with each other.
(that does sound stupid don't you think?)

i) The Illyrian city names mentioned in ancient times that were kept do not follow the Albanian sound change laws, suggesting that they were late borrowing from an intermediary language (most likely Romance or Slavic), rather than inherited (for example ancient Aulona should have been inherited in modern Albanian as Alor? instead of Vlore.

j)Ptolemy in Book 5 chapter 15 titled "Location of Illyria or Liburnia, and of Dalmatia" (The Fifth Map of Europe)
Never mentions the alleged "albanopolis" that they support he has, and can be found at 46 degrees and 41 degrees 45', but when you look up what he really has writen, you find the city of Thermidava
Ptolemy's Geography can be found at :
penelope.uchicago.edu/Tha.../home.html

k) Now, when we look at apostle Bartholomew's life, we find he labored in the area around the south end of the Caspian Sea, in the section that was then called Armenia. The modern name of the district where he died is Azerbaijan and the place of his death, called in New Testament times ALBANOPOLIS!!!, is now Derbend which is on the west coast of the Caspian Sea.

l) Out of a list of 40-50 Illyrian city names known to us only 2-5 of the Albanian city names can be connected to them.

m) There is NO MEMORY!!! of the Illyrian past in the Albanian cultural heritage.

n) One of the interesting facts that connect the Albanians to the Caucasus and that they are not the descendants of the Ancient Illyrians is the Turkish name for the Albanians. "Arnauti", which means "those who have not returned" in Arabic, for the Turks were aware of the origins of the Albanians. And they truly did not return, they stayed in Serbian and Byzantine lands.

o) Hard evidence is the Turkish censuses carried out in 1455, they indicate that Albanian names are found in only 80 of the 600 villages listed in the area, and that they did not constitute territorial groups, ruling out any assumptions that zones evenly and continuously inhabited by Albanians existed at the time.

p) The first Albo dictionary was published in 1635 and contained only 5,000 words, when today any pocket dictionary contains at least 250.000 proving that their language was still under development.

q) The most interesting fact is our knowledge of the Arab conquer of the Albanian Caucasus sometime around the 7th cent based on Byzantine, Arab and Armenian sources.
They were converted to Islam and used as military troops to attack Sicily, dividing it into two parts, (hence there was the Kingdom of the two Sicilies). In order to populate their part of Sicily, the Arabs brought with them Old Albanians from the Caucasus.

Then in 1042, the Byzantine Empire attacked the young Serbian state after having defeated the Arabs in Sicily and having brought the Sicilian Albanians under their command and christianizing them. The leader of the Byzantines who led the Albanians was named Georgius Maniakos. Maniakos brought Albanian mercenaries from Sicily to fight the Serbs and they settled in two waves in modern day Albania, first the mercenaries came, and then came the women and children. After the defeat of Maniakos, the Byzantines would not let the Albanians return, thus the Albanians requested that the Serbs let them stay on the land. They settled under mount Raban and the city of Berat and from this, the Serbs called them "Rabanasi" or "Arbanasi". The city of Berat was known as Belgrad also, before the Albanians came to settle there. They mostly tended sheep and cattle and lent themselves out to Serbian nobles as brave soldiers.

I really don't know how accurate this article is. But this isn't the first time i've come across this. The linguistic arguments concerning Chechen on paper seem a bit far fetched but to the ear they really are very similar except Albanian has this sort of Italian tint to it. Another linguistic point is why does Albanian not have any ancient Greek/Latin origin words? If the Albanians really have always been there you'd think they'd have something. Illyria was one of THE most Romanized provinces in the entire Empire. Latina vulgaris/proto-Romanian was spoken throughout the Balkans north of Greece as the lingua franca until the slavic migrations. Even Serbian Linguist Vuk Karadzic mentions "All Serbs were Vlachs." So what happened in Albania? No Latinization, no Hellenization (Linguistically that is.)

The notion of this migration from the Caucasus mountains considering the Albanian population (around 4 million) is very possible. I would say probably the Yugoslavs have more to claim form Illyrians than the Albanians themselves considering the Turkification/Arabification of the Albanian populace...even if they were aboriginals to the area. Now anyone who's spoken balkan history and ethnogenesis with me will tell you that I very much so believe most genetics in the balkans haven't changed much since the paleoithic age. Terms like "Slav" in the Balkans are more linguistic than actually genetic. A Serb/Croat/Bulgarian is closer to a Romanian and a Greek than a Pole or Russian. But there are also non European who migrated in the medieval age into Europe and who had a much less stable way of life. The gypsies who number about the same as the Albanians show that the numbers aren't too high for a migration theory.

What do you think?

[Sunbird Alkibijad]

Hah

This is a nice read, I always thought they had some sort of heritage from Illyrians, but Illyrians were a large group of people that inhabited much larger area than than the modern Albanians even have a remote connection to - the entire territory of old SFRJ(except maybe Slovenia and northern parts of modern Serbia and Croatia).

A few things I have to remark about:

The physical appearance of Albanians. There is a certain physical/appearance oddity in them compared to other nations/peoples that surround them in area. So that can go in line with what you said - where they originate from.

But - opposed to that is their current numbers. There is now...what, 5-6 million Albanians counting together Albania and Kosovar renegades(pardon me, but illegal is illegal). If you say they were brought here as mercenaries, followed with their families, what's the reasonable original number that came to modern Albania, and what is the realistic population growth from the time they settled to the modern day? Do take into account incredible family sizes of at least 3-4 children, and not seldom with 10 or more... (this is no pun nor joke, it's quite quite real numbers). So, are the numbers ok, or too much off the realistic mark?

[0N3]

Is Albania mostly muslim or atheist?

[Shqiponja_Hayabusa]

Oh another serbian-greek natinalistic post. Great

Nevermind that Alexander beat the whelping living merde out of the Illyrians and conscripted them as slingers and the likes for his armies.

Well, seconding your logic: Sparta and Athens beat the heck out each-other and eganged in the first total war, no to mention the other city states. So Spartans or Athenians were not greek.
AtG also destroyed Thebes to the ground, there you go with the love for your own kind.

Obviously Albania is related to the Caucasian Albania, but also the Usa Albany.

[Banana Jelly]

Is Albania mostly muslim or atheist?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania#Religion

[Katsumoto]

The URL of your link discredits the source straight away. For anyone who doesn't know what 'shiptar' means:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shiptar

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, but at least get a better source.

[il padrino]

The URL of your link discredits the source straight away. For anyone who doesn't know what 'shiptar' means:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shiptar

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, but at least get a better source.

Uhm sorry Katsumoto,but the word Shiptar is a derivation from Shqiptar,which means Albanian in Albanian.So how come is it offensive ?Shiptar doesn't have even ONE of the meanings your link claims,it simply means "Albanian"

Braindead Colonel@

How many Albanians actually believe this nonsense?

Well from what i've seen,everyone in this site,and every Albanian i met in my life.

and I am pretty sure that such ideas are not supported by Albania's government and intelligentsia (someone please correct me if I am wrong). If that is the case then, these ideas should die out as economic conditions improve in Albania.

Unfortunately you're wrong

Some quotes from this link,where Albanian "academics" respond to the new Macedonian encyclopedia.

For historian Ferid Dirka it is just about the re-launching of a nationalist thesis of the 19th century. “It is just a new version of Serb and Slav historiography, which takes its inspiration from a nationalist doctrine of the 19th century that is devoid of all scientific foundation,” says Dirka, who goes on to add that “studies of the period of the Ottoman occupation made it clear that the Albanians are the early inhabitants of those territories, not newcomers, as Serb, Slav, or Slavomacedonian academic circles try to make out.

Chairman of the Albanian Academy of Sciences Gudar Beqiraj: As chairman of the Albanian Academy of Sciences I can say that it will not allow itself to fall to the level of its SlavoMacedonian counterpart, which has for sure taken political orders for the realization of its encyclopedia.. Its authors have not taken into consideration the facts provided by the Albanian encyclopedia, both its new edition published a few months ago or the its edition of the year 1985, in which personalities of great reputation such as Aleks Buda, Neritan Ceka, or Myzafer Korkuti provide facts about the origin of the Albanian nation, the Illyrians or Pelasgians, facts that nobody has contested until now.

[Braindead Colonel]

@il padrino

You are omitting the back-story. A FYROM sponsored encyclopedia was published, which was offensive towards Albanians (and Bulgarians and Greeks, but lets not get into that.) It only makes sense that you will get a reaction from the other side.

And again, what is the problem with them claiming descent from the Illyrians? The Pelasgian idea has been discredited though unfortunately it seems some still cling to it because of chauvinistic reasons.

[il padrino]

@il padrino

You are omitting the back-story. A FYROM sponsored encyclopedia was published, which was offensive towards Albanians (and Bulgarians and Greeks, but lets not get into that.) It only makes sense that you will get a reaction from the other side.

And again, what is the problem with them claiming descent from the Illyrians? The Pelasgian idea has been discredited though unfortunately it seems some still cling to it because of chauvinistic reasons.

I know about that FYROM sponsored encyclopedia,but i'm not sure how it was offensive to Albanians.By claiming that they are not the original people of Macedonia ?
And yeah,the FYROM encyclopedia is made of BS itself,but the point is that "Albanian academics"=people with some influence in the Albanian social life,answered to that book with their own chauvinistic version which claims that Alexandar the Great was Albanian and that they're all Illirians.

That's why i answered to your "i hope the majority doesn't believe in that".

And again, what is the problem with them claiming descent from the Illyrians?

They claim to be the ONLY people related to Illyrians,that's the problem.In that way they make their history in which everything was theirs until "bloody Slavs came somwhere from Siberia and took their lands"

[Acco]

A FYROM sponsored encyclopedia was published, which was offensive towards Albanians (and Bulgarians and Greeks, but lets not get into that.)

And Macedonians. It's a disgrace for us too.

I really appreciate it when certain "intellects" warp in to the threads with anything related to Balkans and wave their wisdom of "ah it's yet another Balkan dickwaving thread, omfg balkans is such place, omfg you guys never stop" and so on and so on...Yet you don't see people coming in and bombarding discussions about west European wars/history discussions with statements like the ones they use for Balkans...

Well said. It's always annoyed me how the Balkans seem to have this unique exemption from the rules of stereotyping.

[Carpathian Wolf]

Why is it relevant? How isn't it relevant? Apparently there are people who seem to be confusing Albanians with Turks due to later cultural similarities or whatnot (and I have encountered that here on TWC).

I place no stock in any theory that would even suggest the Byzantines did that, because the Byzantines controlled Armenia directly for a period of like a decade (in the 11th century. shot themselves in the foot as that involved disbanding the local military and dispersing the nobility as part of their pacification of the region. Manzikert soon followed...), which borders Caucasian Albania, much less Caucasian Albania itself (IE, never).

As for the document, I remember it was something church related. I'm not professing to be an expert, I remember seeing a date for the first known document written in Albanian, and thought to myself, "well, that's before Turks as we know them came to that part of Europe, so they were there before that point"

I believe it was a 13th century document if someone can verify that for me. That actually makes sense as the 13th century was kind of a rough time for the byzantines, and perhaps would have been an ideal time for local christians to use their language in church services or writing, being cut off from Greek Christians.

having re-read the bit about the supposed byzantine settlement of albanians, it is seriously the biggest sack of I've ever read, next to anything by Zarah Buniatov (or however you spell his name). It was kinda funny though. Bear in mind that Arabic soldiers from Khorasan, and later Turkish soldiers would have made up the bulk of the armies of the caliphate. The theory presented in the OP is pretty much garbage.

You obviously didn't read it because it didn't say the Byzantines brought them from the caucausian mountains to the Balkans.

I said Albanians are not necessarily descended form Illyrians living in present day Albania, they can be tribes from the interior of Western Balkans that extended in Albania later. Also I said the interior of Albania is very isolated mountainous terrain and the tribes living there had no interest in the litoral that was occupied by foreign powers.

Well if the Albanians were Illyrians from the interior of the western Balkans...they'd still have come in contact with the Romans. I doubt very much that after 800 years of Roman rule they wouldn't have any interest in the language of the people around them.

REALLY? ANY WORDS? Look here

And which words are ancient latin?

I said I'm NOT linking Albanians in Kosov necessarily with Dardani.

Anyway I'm amazed how some people try to find all sorts of exotic origins for Albanians while trying to deny the most obvious origin : In Antiquity Western Balkans were inhabited by populations speaking Illyrian and Thracian, Indo-European languages lost now; today in the same area lives a population of Albanians speaking an Indo-European language that can't be classified in any major living group; a reasonable man would say they are most probably descendants from Illyrians or Thracians; biased persons with political agendas will try to locate their origin in any exotic distant place as Caucasus, anywhere but to the most obvious location and population.

But a reasonable man would look at all possibilities. The similarities between Albanian and Chechen are very interesting. Could be coincidental could be not.

And people wonder why the Balkans are such a place.

Well, actually nno one wonders why, it's painfully obvious. (and don't start moaning Romania isn't in the Balkans now)

Who the hell asked you?

Number 1: The Illyrian toponyms known from antiquity, e.g. Shkoder from the ancient Scodra (Livius), Tomor from Tomarus (Strabo, Pliny, etc.), have not been directly inherited in Albanian: the contemporary forms of these names do not correspond to the phonetic laws of Albanian. The same also applies to the ancient toponyms of Latin origin in this region.

Number 2: The most ancient loanwords from Latin in Albanian have the phonetic form of eastern Balkan Latin, i.e. of proto-Rumanian, and not of western Balkan Latin, i.e. of old Dalmatian Latin. Albanian, therefore, did not take its borrowings from Vulgar Latin as spoken in Illyria.

Number 3: The Adriatic coast was not part of the primitive home of the Albanians, because the maritime terminology of Albanian is not their own, but is borrowed from different languages.

Number 4: Another indication against local Albanian origin is the insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords.

Number 5:The Albanians are not mentioned before the 9th century a.d., although place names and personal names from the whole region of Albania are attested in numerous documents from the 4th century onwards.

Number 6: The old home of the Albanians must have been near to that of the proto-Rumanians. The oldest Latin elements in Albanian come from proto-Rumanian, i.e. eastern Balkan Latin, and not from Dalmatian, western Balkan Latin that was spoken in Illyria. Cf. the phonetic development of the following words: Vulgar Latin caballum 'horse' Rum. cal, Alb. kal Vulgar Latin cubitum 'elbow' Rum. cot, Alb. kut Vulgar Latin lucta 'struggle, fight' Rum. luptd, Arum, luftd, Alb. luft'e

Very good points.

@C. Wolf, you still, and nobody else for that matter, haven't answered my question. If Albanians are indeed descendants of those mercenaries that settled the area, what would be their realistic number today?

I have no idea.

I really appreciate it when certain "intellects" warp in to the threads with anything related to Balkans and wave their wisdom of "ah it's yet another Balkan dickwaving thread, omfg balkans is such place, omfg you guys never stop" and so on and so on...Yet you don't see people coming in and bombarding discussions about west European wars/history discussions with statements like the ones they use for Balkans...

Would be so easy, wouldn't it? I mean, every single war your "emancipated and well cultured, educated, and good Christian" nations have ever started, led to how many hundred millions of people ending up dead, displaced and persecuted?

If you don't feel like debating with facts and arguments, but just plan on seeding derailment and ignorant generalization of parts of the world you know next to nothing about, then feel free to stay in your own well emancipated little corner of the world that does not thrive with likes of KKK, neo nazis and pedophiles

My sentiments exactly. My uncle in Romania even brought up a point. "Germans, Italians, Spaniards, British, they all say things about how gypsies come from here to their country and steal. But what about the many pedophiles that come and take advantage of children and have sex with them? What's worse a thief or a child rapist?"

[CiviC]

Well if the Albanians were Illyrians from the interior of the western Balkans...they'd still have come in contact with the Romans. I doubt very much that after 800 years of Roman rule they wouldn't have any interest in the language of the people around them.

And which words are ancient latin?

This shows you didn't read the quote

History

Linguistic affinities

The Albanian language is a distinct Indo-European language that does not belong to any other existing branch. Sharing lexical isoglosses with Greek, Balto-Slavic, and Germanic, the word stock of Albanian is quite distinct. Hastily tied to Germanic and Balto-Slavic by the merger of PIE *ǒ and *ǎ into *ǎ in a supposed "northern group",[15] Albanian has proven to be distinct from the other two groups as this vowel shift is only part of a larger push chain that affected all long vowels.[16] Albanian does share with Balto-Slavic two features: a lengthening of syllabic consonants before voiced obstruents and a distinct treatment of long syllables ending in a sonorant.[17] Conservative features of Albanian include the retention of the distinction between active and middle voice, present and aorist tenses, distinguishing the three original series of dorsal consonants (i.e., palatals, velars, and labio-velars) before front vowels, and initial PIE *h4 as an h.[18]
Albanian is considered to have its closest linguistic affinity to and to have evolved from an extinct Paleo-Balkan language, usually taken to be either Illyrian or thracian. See also Thraco-Illyrian and Messapian language.
Linguistic influences

The period during which Proto-Albanian and Latin interacted was protracted and drawn out over six centuries, 1st c. AD to 6th or 7th c. AD. This is born out into roughly three layers of borrowings, the largest number belonging to the second layer. The first, with the fewest borrowings, was a time of less important interaction. The final period, probably preceding the Slavic or Germanic invasions, also has a notably smaller amount of borrowings. Each layer is characterized by a different treatment of most vowels, the first layer having several that follow the evolution of Early Proto-Albanian into Albanian; later layers reflect vowel changes endemic to Late Latin and presumably Proto-Romance. Other formative changes include the syncretism of several noun case endings, especially in the plural, as well as a large scale palatalization.
A brief period followed, between 7th c. AD and 9th c. AD, that was marked by heavy borrowings from Southern Slavic, some of which predate the "o-a" shift common to the modern forms of this language group. Starting in the latter 9th c. AD, a period followed characterized by protracted contact with the Proto-Romanians, or Vlachs, though lexical borrowing seems to have been mostly one sided - from Albanian into Romanian. Such borrowing indicates that the Romanians migrated from an area where the majority was Slavic (i.e. Middle Bulgarian) to an area with a majority of Albanian speakers, i.e. Dardania, where Vlachs are recorded in the 10th c. AD. Their movement is probably related to the expansion of the Bulgarian empire into Albania around that time. This fact places the Albanians at a rather early date in the western or central Balkans.
Latin element of the Albanian language

Regarding the Latin loanwords, the first one who noticed the earlier influence on the Albanian language was Jernej Kopitar (1829) who claimed that "the Latin loanwords in the Albanian language had the pronunciation of the time of Emperor Augustus".[19] This scholar presented cases like "qiqer" ← cicer, "qytet" ← civitas, "peshk" ← piscis, "shëngjetë" ← sagitta etc. where we can see a Latin c- (= /k-/) or /g-/ followed by a front vowel maintained in the Albanian language as a palatal or velar stop. This was confirmed later by Gustav Meyer (1888)[20] and Wilhelm Meyer-Lübke(1914)[21]. Another scholar interested in this problem was Eqrem Çabej, who dedicated a special work[22], where he noticed among other things the indices of the archaic Latin element in the Albanian language. Among them are:
a) Evolution au → a which is noticed in the oldest Latin element of the Albanian language like aurum → "ar", gaudium → "gas", laurus → "lar". This has not happened in later borrowings like causa → "kafshë", laud → "lavd".
b) Evolution o → e, just as in the inherited IE elements of the Albanian language (*nos → "ne", *+oct- → "tetë" etc.) which is noticed in the oldest Latin loanwords like pomum → "pemë", hora → "herë".
c) The drop of the syllable between two vowels (just like in the inherited IE element), e.g. cubitus → "kut", medicus → "mjek", padul → "pyll", while in latter Latin borrowings this is not noticed anymore: paganus → "i pëganë"/"i pëgërë", plaga → "plagë" etc.
d) Palatalization of /tj-/, /dj-/, /kj-/ into /s-/, /z-/, /q-/: vitius → "ves", ratio → "(a)rësye", radius → "rreze", facies → "faqe", socius → "shoq" etc.
Another author contributing in this area was Haralambie Mihăescu, who demonstrated that some 85 Latin words have survived in Albanian, but not in any Romance language (including Romanian). Some of them are "bujk" ← bubulcus, "mërrajë" ← hibernalia, "shelqëror" ← sarcinarius, "tërfurk" ← trifurcus, "qift" ← accipiter, "mushkonjë" ← +musconea, "kulshedër" ← chersydrus, "shpnetkë"/"shpretkë" ← +spleneticum, "shullг"/"shullë" ← solanum.[23]
In addition, he identified 151 other Albanian words of Latin origin which cannot be found in Romanian. Some of them are "mik" ← amicus, "anmik"/"armik" ← inimicus, "bekoj" ← benedicere, "qelq" ← calix (calicis), "kështjellë" ← castellum, "qind" ← centum, "gjel" ← gallus, "gjymtyrë" ← iunctЇra, "mjek" ← medicus, "rjetë" ← rete, "shërbej" ← servire, "shpërej" ← sperare, "vullnet" ← voluntas (voluntatis).[24]
He also noticed that even the earliest words of church terminology in Albanian language present such phonetic changes that testify their ancient borrowing from Latin. Some of them are "lter" ← altare, "engjëll" ← angelus, "bekoj" ← benedicere, "i krishtenë"/"i krishterë" ← christianus, "kryq" ← crux (crucis), "klishë"/"kishë" ← ecclesia, "ipeshkv" ← episcopus, "ungjill" ← evangelium, "mallkoj" ← maledicere, "meshë" ← missa, "munëg"/murg" ← monacus, "i pëganë"/"i pëgërë" ← paganus.[25]
Other authors[26] have shown that in contrast to Romanian, there are also other Latin loanwords in Albanian which show a very ancient sound pattern, from the 1st century B.C.: from (Latin) cingula → "qingëlë" (Alb); from (Latin) vetus, veteris → "vjetër" (Alb) etc. while the Romance languages have inherited these words from (Vulgar Latin) *cingla → "chinga" (N. Romanian) 'belly band, saddle girth', ; from (Vulgar Latin) veteran → "batrân" (N. Romanian) 'old' , etc.

But a reasonable man would look at all possibilities. The similarities between Albanian and Chechen are very interesting. Could be coincidental could be not.

Albanian is an Indo-European language while Chechen is not. The rest is phantasy.

[Carpathian Wolf]

This shows you didn't read the quote

History

Linguistic affinities

The Albanian language is a distinct Indo-European language that does not belong to any other existing branch. Sharing lexical isoglosses with Greek, Balto-Slavic, and Germanic, the word stock of Albanian is quite distinct. Hastily tied to Germanic and Balto-Slavic by the merger of PIE *ǒ and *ǎ into *ǎ in a supposed "northern group",[15] Albanian has proven to be distinct from the other two groups as this vowel shift is only part of a larger push chain that affected all long vowels.[16] Albanian does share with Balto-Slavic two features: a lengthening of syllabic consonants before voiced obstruents and a distinct treatment of long syllables ending in a sonorant.[17] Conservative features of Albanian include the retention of the distinction between active and middle voice, present and aorist tenses, distinguishing the three original series of dorsal consonants (i.e., palatals, velars, and labio-velars) before front vowels, and initial PIE *h4 as an h.[18]
Albanian is considered to have its closest linguistic affinity to and to have evolved from an extinct Paleo-Balkan language, usually taken to be either Illyrian or thracian. See also Thraco-Illyrian and Messapian language.
Linguistic influences

The period during which Proto-Albanian and Latin interacted was protracted and drawn out over six centuries, 1st c. AD to 6th or 7th c. AD. This is born out into roughly three layers of borrowings, the largest number belonging to the second layer. The first, with the fewest borrowings, was a time of less important interaction. The final period, probably preceding the Slavic or Germanic invasions, also has a notably smaller amount of borrowings. Each layer is characterized by a different treatment of most vowels, the first layer having several that follow the evolution of Early Proto-Albanian into Albanian; later layers reflect vowel changes endemic to Late Latin and presumably Proto-Romance. Other formative changes include the syncretism of several noun case endings, especially in the plural, as well as a large scale palatalization.
A brief period followed, between 7th c. AD and 9th c. AD, that was marked by heavy borrowings from Southern Slavic, some of which predate the "o-a" shift common to the modern forms of this language group. Starting in the latter 9th c. AD, a period followed characterized by protracted contact with the Proto-Romanians, or Vlachs, though lexical borrowing seems to have been mostly one sided - from Albanian into Romanian. Such borrowing indicates that the Romanians migrated from an area where the majority was Slavic (i.e. Middle Bulgarian) to an area with a majority of Albanian speakers, i.e. Dardania, where Vlachs are recorded in the 10th c. AD. Their movement is probably related to the expansion of the Bulgarian empire into Albania around that time. This fact places the Albanians at a rather early date in the western or central Balkans.
Latin element of the Albanian language

Regarding the Latin loanwords, the first one who noticed the earlier influence on the Albanian language was Jernej Kopitar (1829) who claimed that "the Latin loanwords in the Albanian language had the pronunciation of the time of Emperor Augustus".[19] This scholar presented cases like "qiqer" ← cicer, "qytet" ← civitas, "peshk" ← piscis, "shëngjetë" ← sagitta etc. where we can see a Latin c- (= /k-/) or /g-/ followed by a front vowel maintained in the Albanian language as a palatal or velar stop. This was confirmed later by Gustav Meyer (1888)[20] and Wilhelm Meyer-Lübke(1914)[21]. Another scholar interested in this problem was Eqrem Çabej, who dedicated a special work[22], where he noticed among other things the indices of the archaic Latin element in the Albanian language. Among them are:
a) Evolution au → a which is noticed in the oldest Latin element of the Albanian language like aurum → "ar", gaudium → "gas", laurus → "lar". This has not happened in later borrowings like causa → "kafshë", laud → "lavd".
b) Evolution o → e, just as in the inherited IE elements of the Albanian language (*nos → "ne", *+oct- → "tetë" etc.) which is noticed in the oldest Latin loanwords like pomum → "pemë", hora → "herë".
c) The drop of the syllable between two vowels (just like in the inherited IE element), e.g. cubitus → "kut", medicus → "mjek", padul → "pyll", while in latter Latin borrowings this is not noticed anymore: paganus → "i pëganë"/"i pëgërë", plaga → "plagë" etc.
d) Palatalization of /tj-/, /dj-/, /kj-/ into /s-/, /z-/, /q-/: vitius → "ves", ratio → "(a)rësye", radius → "rreze", facies → "faqe", socius → "shoq" etc.
Another author contributing in this area was Haralambie Mihăescu, who demonstrated that some 85 Latin words have survived in Albanian, but not in any Romance language (including Romanian). Some of them are "bujk" ← bubulcus, "mërrajë" ← hibernalia, "shelqëror" ← sarcinarius, "tërfurk" ← trifurcus, "qift" ← accipiter, "mushkonjë" ← +musconea, "kulshedër" ← chersydrus, "shpnetkë"/"shpretkë" ← +spleneticum, "shullг"/"shullë" ← solanum.[23]
In addition, he identified 151 other Albanian words of Latin origin which cannot be found in Romanian. Some of them are "mik" ← amicus, "anmik"/"armik" ← inimicus, "bekoj" ← benedicere, "qelq" ← calix (calicis), "kështjellë" ← castellum, "qind" ← centum, "gjel" ← gallus, "gjymtyrë" ← iunctЇra, "mjek" ← medicus, "rjetë" ← rete, "shërbej" ← servire, "shpërej" ← sperare, "vullnet" ← voluntas (voluntatis).[24]
He also noticed that even the earliest words of church terminology in Albanian language present such phonetic changes that testify their ancient borrowing from Latin. Some of them are "lter" ← altare, "engjëll" ← angelus, "bekoj" ← benedicere, "i krishtenë"/"i krishterë" ← christianus, "kryq" ← crux (crucis), "klishë"/"kishë" ← ecclesia, "ipeshkv" ← episcopus, "ungjill" ← evangelium, "mallkoj" ← maledicere, "meshë" ← missa, "munëg"/murg" ← monacus, "i pëganë"/"i pëgërë" ← paganus.[25]
Other authors[26] have shown that in contrast to Romanian, there are also other Latin loanwords in Albanian which show a very ancient sound pattern, from the 1st century B.C.: from (Latin) cingula → "qingëlë" (Alb); from (Latin) vetus, veteris → "vjetër" (Alb) etc. while the Romance languages have inherited these words from (Vulgar Latin) *cingla → "chinga" (N. Romanian) 'belly band, saddle girth', ; from (Vulgar Latin) veteran → "batrân" (N. Romanian) 'old' , etc.



Albanian is an Indo-European language while Chechen is not. The rest is phantasy.

Which says nothing. Which words are classical/ancient latin? Go ahead and show me two.

[John I Tzimisces]

You obviously didn't read it because it didn't say the Byzantines brought them from the caucausian mountains to the Balkans.

Yes, I did. Read the last passage. The arabs used khorasani arabs and later turks as their primary military force prior to the neutering of abbassid power. You're putting far too much stock in a plainly ridiculous theory and let me tell you, it reflects very poorly on you.

I think you said you didn't necessarily believe it, but then you constantly say "but read it! read it!" That's a bit of a contradiction.

[Carpathian Wolf]

Yes, I did. Read the last passage. The arabs used khorasani arabs and later turks as their primary military force prior to the neutering of abbassid power. You're putting far too much stock in a plainly ridiculous theory and let me tell you, it reflects very poorly on you.

You said that the Byzantines couldn't have from the Albanians from around Armenia because they didn't hold it at the time. This showed that you ignored or didnt read the fact that the Byzantines (in the theory) brought the Albanians from SICILY.

And what stock am I putting in this theory? Did I claim to champion it in any way?

[Publius Clodius Pulcher]

Dear god, I hate the Balkans. Always trying to dickwave over which historical figures are "theirs". Moronic ideas when we're talking about people 2000 years ago.

[SonOfOdin]

Dear god, I hate the Balkans. Always trying to dickwave over which historical figures are "theirs". Moronic ideas when we're talking about people 2000 years ago.

Don't Jews do that too against Palestinians?
THIS IS OUR PROMISED LAND!!! WE ARE GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE...yeah from 3000 years ago...

[dogukan]

Dear god, I hate the Balkans. Always trying to dickwave over which historical figures are "theirs". Moronic ideas when we're talking about people 2000 years ago.

This!

[Francebunkerer]

I've heard that too but honestly...then they'd be calling everyone that wouldn't they?

The French-speaking part of Switzerland is called 'Welsche Schweiz' in German. 'Rotwelsch', a kind of coded language, would also be an example.

Dear god, I hate the Balkans. Always trying to dickwave over which historical figures are "theirs". Moronic ideas when we're talking about people 2000 years ago.

Oh yeah!
Arbitrary classifications to distinguish oneself from THEM and feeling superior to THEM is just sad.

[dogukan]

Oh yeah!
Arbitrary classifications to distinguish oneself from THEM and feeling superior to THEM is just sad.

Well in case that was pointed at me, I'm pretty much in the Balkans, at least in the very close geography.
My point is that, people should not personlize this stuff to take pride in it. Today's Greeks are not Alexander....Albanians are not Skanderbeg. These figures are just people in history.
No one should take pride or shame in history....becuase it is history...they are the common history of all humans.
Personalization of this casues subjetivity, hatred and every kind of unnecessary fights.