Agnostic

[ROFL Copter]

I just wanted to ask the question, what is Agnosticism exactly? I've been told I am it, but I read about it and it seems completely wrong.

[TheXand]

It's like a half-assed atheism without the backbone.

[mrcrusty]

Means you don't know.

No, seriously. It comes from the greek word gnosis meaning knowledge (someone who's actually Greek can correct me and my wiki skills if I'm wrong). So Agnosticism means a state where you do not have the knowledge to say definately in the affirmative or the negative. You cannot prove nor disprove God, so you do not know.

The existence of God is unknown, or inheritly unknowable.

However, agnosticism refers only to the knowledge we have to make a decision, it is not mutually exclusive like theism and atheism. There are agnostic atheists as well as agnostic theists.

[TheXand]

See? Basically what I said

Most agnostics do not really believe that there is a god however, because as they are usually undecided about the existence of any type of god, they are generally not practicing theists. Ask most people in Britain they will say that they are agnostic, as they are on the fence about the whole "Is there a god" issue, though veering towards atheism. (At least most people that I have asked anyways, though that's still a very small sample population lol, and bearing in mind that I live in the atheist capital of Scotland)

[Manco]

The existence of God is unknown, or inheritly unknowable.

I'd rather say: the nature of god is unknown, or inherently unknowable.

It often results in the agnost declaring a substantial level of uncertainty, but not necessarily. I for example am an agnostic atheist, I think the nature of god is unknowable, but even with that in mind I find its existence very unlikely.
Someone who simply doubts because he doesn't know, isn't an agnost, he's simply a doubter.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I just wanted to ask the question, what is Agnosticism exactly? I've been told I am it, but I read about it and it seems completely wrong.

Yeah, that's because there's a load of people out there, especially hardcore Dawkins-school atheists, who want to adapt agnosticism until it's just synonymous with atheism.

Agnosticism is simply if you do not know if there is a God or if you believe it is impossible to know if there is a God.

Ignore any other explanation; it's wrong.

[TheXand]

Yeah, that's because there's a load of people out there, especially hardcore Dawkins-school atheists, who want to adapt agnosticism until it's just synonymous with atheism.

Agnosticism is simply if you do not know if there is a God or if you believe it is impossible to know if there is a God.

Ignore any other explanation; it's wrong.

I thought that it had primarily to do with evidence purtaining to the definitive existence of god? Ie if there isn't any and you can't decide one way or the other given the lack of evidence.
It would surely be extremely unusual for a practicing theist then to be agnostic, as they just wouldn't have the blind faith in their religion. Meaning that most agnostics would swing towards atheism.

[Tankbuster]

This is amazing. Six replies on a thread about agnosticism and none of them has said something stupid yet (OK, maybe one comment was). I think I'm going to cry
The OP has gotten several decent answers already, but to hit the ball out of the park (since agnosticism is probably the most misdefined term in the universe):

Agnosticism anwers a question of knowledge, it answers the statement: "Do you believe knowledge of God is ultimately attainable?" If you answer no to that question, you are called an agnostic.

An agnostic is not just someone who doesn't "know" if there is a God (who does?), but someone who says such a being is unknowable. Big difference.

Where people misuse the word is where they say they are agnostics because they "don't know" (who does?), "aren't sure" (who is?) or are simply reserving judgement until more evidence comes along. A true agnostic would say more evidence wouldn't make any difference, because God is intrinsically unknowable.
Agnosticism hasn't got anything to do with the fact that you "don't know", it's the belief that you can't know.

What an agnostic also isn't:
Someone who is uncertain.
Someone who thinks there's good evidence either way.
Someone who is neutral on the issue.
Someone who doesn't rule out the possibility of God/gods, but is yet to be convinced.
-> None of these people are agnostics.

All these missapprehensions culminate in another way in which people misuse the term: when they pretend that being an agnostic somehow excludes them from being an atheist or a theist. This isn't the case: theism and atheism don't answer questions of knowledge, they answer questions of belief.
The question of belief is "Do you have a belief in God?" That's a yes-or-no question: you might not know for sure whether there is a God or not, but you can be sure whether you yourself have a belief in him. Answer yes and you're an theist. Answer no and you're an atheist.

An agnostic says that God is not able to be known - ie not able to be apprehended by human beings. So most agnostics are also atheists as a result: they are without a belief in God because they consider God totally beyond our apprehension. Others (very few) are theistic agnostics: they consider God unknowable yet believe in him anyway.

The confusion comes when you ask people "Do you have a belief in God?" and they say "I'm agnostic" (translation: I think knowledge of God is ultimately unattainable). Note how that isn't an answer to the question! It's basically like answering the question "Do you have a shirt on?" with "Well, I've got green pants on!".

You might be an agnostic, but remember that this doesn't exclude you from being an atheist or a theist: you'll still be an agnostic theist or agnostic atheist. The truth is that most people who call themselves agnostics are actually atheists and are simply confused by the persistent misapprehension that atheists deny the existence of God.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I thought that it had primarily to do with evidence purtaining to the definitive existence of god? Ie if there isn't any and you can't decide one way or the other given the lack of evidence.
It would surely be extremely unusual for a practicing theist then to be agnostic, as they just wouldn't have the blind faith in their religion. Meaning that most agnostics would swing towards atheism.

Theists or atheists have nothing to do with agnosticism.

[Viking Prince]

I think there must be more to the answer though. I am a Lutheran by belief (faith) and not by knowing there is a God. Yet, I do not think that agnostics would classify me as an agnostic. I think the reason is because they also are not willing to be a theist by faith alone. Now what makes the agnostic differant from the atheist. Again, the atheist also does not believe there is a God by faith alone. See there is some common ground between atheists and theists -- both are acting on faith while the agnostic requires to know the answer before deciding. I am just uncertain how both can be acting on faith and come to differing conclusions. There are many possible answers, but that would be a mystery for another thread.

[Tankbuster]

Viking Prince appears to be a bit confused...

I think there must be more to the answer though. I am a Lutheran by belief (faith) and not by knowing there is a God. Yet, I do not think that agnostics would classify me as an agnostic.

Of course not: agnostics say that the existence of God is unknowable altogether. Just because you aren't sure about the existence of a God does not put you in the agnostic category.

I think the reason is because they also are not willing to be a theist by faith alone.

To the contrary: there is a number of agnostic theists that believes that God is unknowable but still believe in God because of faith.
Agnosticism is not a stand-alone term: you're either an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist.

Now what makes the agnostic differant from the atheist. Again, the atheist also does not believe there is a God by faith alone. See there is some common ground between atheists and theists -- both are acting on faith while the agnostic requires to know the answer before deciding.

Wrong.
First of all, 'the agnostic' is not a term 'in between' theism or atheism: agnostics are still either theists or atheists.
Second, the atheist does not act on faith (necessarily): the atheist doesn't say that there is no God (that would be a faith-based position), he simply says that he does not hold a belief in God, for whatever reason. That reason can be that he maintains (like Ferrest) that he can't possibly know: that would be an agnostic atheist.

I am just uncertain how both can be acting on faith and come to differing conclusions. There are many possible answers, but that would be a mystery for another thread.

Simple: atheists are not acting on faith because they are not making positive statements about either the existence or non-existence of God.

See above for the correct usage of agnosticism.

[Fiyenyaa]

I think there must be more to the answer though. I am a Lutheran by belief (faith) and not by knowing there is a God. Yet, I do not think that agnostics would classify me as an agnostic. I think the reason is because they also are not willing to be a theist by faith alone. Now what makes the agnostic differant from the atheist. Again, the atheist also does not believe there is a God by faith alone. See there is some common ground between atheists and theists -- both are acting on faith while the agnostic requires to know the answer before deciding. I am just uncertain how both can be acting on faith and come to differing conclusions. There are many possible answers, but that would be a mystery for another thread.

Since atheism is the lack of belief in god(s), you are totally wrong.
I don't believe because I have never been presented with either evidence or a convincing argument to do so. That is not faith by any means.

OP:
Gnosticism is knowledge of god(s). Agnosticism is lack of knowledge in god(s).
Theism is belief in god(s). Atheism is lack of belief in god(s).

I would say virtually everyone in the world is an agnostic.

[iudas]

I would say virtually everyone in the world is an agnostic.

That would be a flawed conclusion. One who thinks he knows God isn't an agnostic. I wouldn't say any adherent of monotheistic religions can be agnostic.

[Arch-hereticK]

That would be a flawed conclusion. One who thinks he knows God isn't an agnostic. I wouldn't say any adherent of monotheistic religions can be agnostic.

But they only think they know.
Even Ummon admitted to being an agnostic.

[Fiyenyaa]

That would be a flawed conclusion. One who thinks he knows God isn't an agnostic. I wouldn't say any adherent of monotheistic religions can be agnostic.

You attribute far too much certainty to people, I think.

Behind all the and semantics Atheists think there is no God - Dawkins may say that he doesn't think God definitely doesn't exist but thats what it amounts to.

You couldn't be more wrong. If you are a weak atheist (which the vast majority of atheists are) then you do not believe there is no god, you just do not hold a belief in god.
I do not hold a belief that god definiately doesn't exist. I think it's unlikely, given my current knowledge, but to assert that all atheists are just putting on a front to pretend to be open-minded is just stupid and conspiratorial.

Agnostics are people who think you cannot know and therefore by extension are people who arent sure whether God exists. However not everyone who is unsure about whether God exists is agnostic because you can be unsure but think you will probably reach a conclusion at some point - in which case your not agnostic.

Exactly. Gnosticism and Agnosticism are knowledge-based positions, whilst Theism and Atheism are belief-based positions. I (like most atheists) am an Agnostic Atheist.
Most people who self-describe as Agnostic are Atheists too, because they generally lack a belief in god. It's just a question of which word you want to associate with more strongly.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Exactly. Viking Prince is by no possible interpretation an agnostic. For some reason Dawkins-schoolers are just on a campaign to dilute the meaning of the word.

[Arch-hereticK]

Agnosticism means no knowledge of god(s).

Just like atheism you can have implicit and explicit definitions, you may belive that knowledge of god is impossible or you could claim that you know there is no god.

[removeduser_487563287433]

God what we have here is nothing to do with the appreciation of the definition of a word or even an understanding of how the meanings of words may develop but individuals violently defending how they understand their own position on faith.

[Arch-hereticK]

God what we have here is nothing to do with the appreciation of the definition of a word or even an understanding of how the meanings of words may develop but individuals violently defending how they understand their own position on faith.

Maybe we should have a vote and decide on the new definition that way. Or we could use a good dictionary and use the word as accurately as we can.

[iudas]

Agnosticism is a separate belief from theism/atheism. It's a stance that presumes the nature or existence of god(s) to be unknown or unknowable. You can be an agnostic theist (who believes in god but does not claim to know what he's like) or an agnostic atheist (who - if I understand it properly - doesn't believe in god or is uncertain but believes it's unknowable either way). If you are unsure about god, you are an atheist, not an agnostic.