music dowloads

**wupwup** · January 27, 2010, 10:47 AM

whats your moral veiw on dowloading media for free? personaly (although i never have done because im too virus concious and worried abou getting caught) i dont realy think there is much wrong unless you would
A) buy it in the future if it wasn't easier to download.
B) are selling it

my reason being i have verry little money for things like music, films, even books. so it isnt hurting the people that make it. they aren't loosing out on sales. if it is something i want enough to pay for i think i should support the artist and i buy it. equally a friend torrented some pdf's of the D&D rule book. his reasoning being that he dosnt know anyone who plays so spending £20 on a book he would never use is pointless. but he would still be interested in reading it because his uncle offered to have a game. if he then liked it and found people where he lived a pdf book wouldn't be good enough so he would buy the real book.

as for b sellign pirated stuff is just plain wrong

thoughts?

**Helm** · January 27, 2010, 10:53 AM

I'm not sure if lacking the money or only being casually interested in something gives you the automatic right to have it for free. But as long as you know you're doing something you technically shouldn't be doing.

**Shams al-Ma'rifa** · January 27, 2010, 10:57 AM

It's not stealing because you're not depriving someone of property or even claiming the work as your own (unless you are and then yes that would be bad)... If this thought continues, we're going to have to shut down libraries and ban DVRs... Oh and cover bands, also a ban on reciting song...

**Helm** · January 27, 2010, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by mkesadaran

It's not stealing because you're not depriving someone of property or even claiming the work as your own (unless you are and then yes that would be bad)... If this thought continues, we're going to have to shut down libraries and ban DVRs...

You're still getting something that you're really meant to be paying for for free, I think if you do this you should really just keep quiet about it rather than trying to justify it. You're doing something shouldn't be doing ideally but if you're comfortable doing that then it's fair enough.

**Shams al-Ma'rifa** · January 27, 2010, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Helm

You're still getting something that you're really meant to be paying for for free, I think if you do this you should really just keep quiet about it rather than trying to justify it. You're doing something shouldn't be doing ideally but if you're comfortable doing that then it's fair enough.

So why do we have libraries? I'm getting something that the authors and publishers would rather I pay for...

**Helm** · January 27, 2010, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by mkesadaran

So why do we have libraries? I'm getting something that the authors and publishers would rather I pay for...

With libraries you're only borrowing the books you're not keeping them for yourself. And you indirectly fund libraries through the tax system anyway.

**Shams al-Ma'rifa** · January 27, 2010, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Helm

With libraries you're only borrowing the books you're not keeping them for yourself. And you indirectly fund libraries through the tax system anyway.

I don't need to keep the books the information is already contained in my head. Sometimes I would get a DVD from the library and burn it on my hard drive. I'd return the DVD of course, I don't find that stealing...

Besides most of the time I just delete downloaded videos after watching... That's not much different if you ask me. Filesharing helps promote artists anyways if you want to play that game.

**Dr. Croccer** · January 27, 2010, 10:58 AM

Sharing culture isn't theft.

**Simon Cashmere** · January 27, 2010, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Dr. Croccer

Sharing culture isn't theft.

You might think differently if it was your culture other people were sharing. A lot goes into writing songs, mixing them, editing them, studio time - getting the record label to actually get behind it. If people then cant even pay what is it 99 cents a song or something from Itunes for your trouble, thats pathetic. I know there is culture of the internet = steal everything you can, but that's not a value system we should be imparting on our young people.

Originally Posted by wupwup

whats your moral veiw on dowloading media for free? personaly (although i never have done because im too virus concious and worried abou getting caught) i dont realy think there is much wrong unless you would
A) buy it in the future if it wasn't easier to download.
B) are selling it

my reason being i have verry little money for things like music, films, even books. so it isnt hurting the people that make it. they aren't loosing out on sales. if it is something i want enough to pay for i think i should support the artist and i buy it. equally a friend torrented some pdf's of the D&D rule book. his reasoning being that he dosnt know anyone who plays so spending £20 on a book he would never use is pointless. but he would still be interested in reading it because his uncle offered to have a game. if he then liked it and found people where he lived a pdf book wouldn't be good enough so he would buy the real book.

as for b sellign pirated stuff is just plain wrong

thoughts?

Its not hard to get some money. I don't know where you live, but wherever you are - money is at your fingertips if you want it. Not enough to be a millionaire straight away maybe, but enough to pay for your own music. I'm also with you, piracy is dead wrong. I think the record companies and governments over react to it on occasion. They would be better off going after Asia than the Pirate Bay.

**God-Emperor of Mankind** · January 27, 2010, 12:20 PM

This thread is on a thin line.
No encouraging of downloading or illegal copying.

**wupwup** · January 27, 2010, 12:22 PM

i think supporting pirates is definitely wrong. would never pay for pirated dvd's, music or anything because if i am going to pay, i want to pay the person that made it. but if im not going to pay for it they arent loosing anything by me getting it for free. and in total honestly if i where talented enough to be in a band i dont think i would care about people doing that. if they don't think its good enough to pay for then fine. im still glad they enjoy it. (although in all honesty in that real situation i might react differently. never know till it happens).

edit: sorry tb666: im not condoning it and i would like to add it is a freind. not me. i was just wondering what people thought

**Banana Jelly** · January 27, 2010, 02:34 PM

I don't think sharing is stealing. I have solid proof for that. But I don't think it's ethical to take a developer's item though. But no... I don't think it's theft, stealing or depriving of property. If you are going to download the media, with no intention's or money to buy it later, the publisher won't get the money from you, EVEN if there were no pirating. If the person who downloaded it, because it was leaked, then that's potential sale that lost. Not ACTUAL lost sale. But that's around 10% of people who download so... Plus it's still potential sale that can be earned, when the pirate buy's the game later because he feels bad for pirating and want to support the developer's because he actually liked the game. Pirating can be advertising in some cases which is around 30-40%. Around 40% would actually buy the game if they liked it. But I cant be too sure on the percentages. This is what I made by observing.

There are ton's of artist's who made million's by giving out there products for free. Like Radiohead. Or artists who encourage others to steal and share his work (Brad)

My summarization is pretty summed up.

**Helm** · January 27, 2010, 02:36 PM

Individually it doesn't really do a great deal but on mass that's when it starts to eat into profit margins costing the companies in question real money so depriving them of something they otherwise would have had.

**Banana Jelly** · January 27, 2010, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Helm

Individually it doesn't really do a great deal but on mass that's when it starts to eat into profit margins costing the companies in question real money so depriving them of something they otherwise would have had.

Which is, as I said potential sale, which is around 10% of pirates. If pirates wouldn't buy the game in the first place, why bother worrying about them, when you should ACTUALLY be convincing the 10% of the pirates who would ACTUALLY but the game if there where no free options?

**Helm** · January 27, 2010, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Monopolist

If pirates wouldn't buy the game in the first place

I'm more of the mind that if there's a game I wouldn't want to buy then I wouldn't really want to play it either.

**Banana Jelly** · January 27, 2010, 02:43 PM

Which is as I said in the first post of the thread that, I don't support the pirates action though. But it's totally not like what the lobbyists for anti-piracy say it is.