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  1. #1
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    Default Gondor too hard?

    I think personaly Gondor is a tad too hard. Now i don't know if Gondor was designed to be hard. But it just seems that everyturn im loosing a developed settlement to full stacks of either Harad, Mordor or Isengard from the north area.

    So because of it, im having to auto_win defender every turn just to stay afloat, so i don't face total loss in my campaign.

    Issue #1; The economy is way too slow in the game. Often am i finding it neon impossible to recover from an attacks and to have forces sufficent enough to defend or assult the next wave of forces on the next turn.

    Issue #2; The unit's upkeep are too high. I feel this wasn't a issue in 1.3. But because of the nerf in income with 1.4, i can't even afford to keep a full stack without loosing 2000g each turn. This is a bad issue when im trying to defend places like Minas Ithil to prevent a total mordor takeover. City's income should be double what they are now. I should be able to field atleast four full stacks of armys and still make a profit each turn. Again mostly down to unit upkeep.

    Issue #3; City's are too slow to upgrade. For instance, right now im on turn 130 and im supprised im still upgrading most of my basic city's with the most basic of unit buildings. Which are mostly on the southen area of my empire near Harad. Meaning im loosing my towns and whatnot because of lack of unit poducing buildings. So because of the reason that all my good towns & city's are further up north which happen also to be the ones which are the most developed it means im loosing towns fast.

    Issue #4; The movement is stupidly short. Im finding it often taking me about 10 turns to get down to where the fight it from Minas Tirith, since that place is the only well developed military wise for poducing strong units to the southen area of my empire. Pair that with the fact that because unit's are dead expensive to upkeep and slow to recuit, im often finding myself waiting on a average about 20 or so turns before those units make it down to the battlelines. Only then to get them killed off by some random large stack of Harad troops. Slow because of the movement is slow on the units and that Seige weapons lower your movement points by half. So by the time they get down there ive already lost towns and stuff. And don't forget i can't afford more than two stacks of full units. Where as the AI can because of the cheats it gets.

    Issue #4; Not related to Gondor as such but i often find the game is forcing me how to play, great example is Rohan, they field some of the best and most developed cavalry in the game, however if i was to have a full stack of nothing but them i get eaten away with full stacks of isengard because cavarly in Third age only have about 76 or so units in each stack so im faced with 1000 units against 4000 Uruks. I don't want to have Cavarly and some foot grounds just to have a more larger but slower force. Because it ruins the all point of playing Rohan. I use infantry to defend towns so i have two archers and two heavy infantry per town (more more for Edoras & other places like that) Again i would find myself using infantry more but again they are too slow, and the region is too big. So overall the battlemap balance with the units is bad in some ways. I wan't to play the game and find way of using the units. Not to read guides and get told how to play each turn. It ruins the fun.

    Edit: Cleaned it the first post up.
    Last edited by Deedlit; June 09, 2010 at 09:28 PM.

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  2. #2
    gluteus maximus aurelius's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    Have you tried looking up for Gondor guides? There are loads out there. What difficulty level are you playing at? What is the year? What have you actually done since you started? Any sort of screenies would be beneficial. It sounds to me as though you've expanded East into Mordor AND south into Harad, which most avid Gondor players will tell you is a bad move, most prefer to go south and eliminate Harad first before going East to take on Mordor. A (VERY) basic guide:

    It's important in the early game to set up the Eastern front as your military and building zone. Any cities in the west need only build things that will provide economical benefit. Linhir should have a full garrison and Pelargir should have at least a half stack, this will meant that you should be capable of beating off multiple Harad stacks. In the East you MUST take Cair Andros and at least West Osgiliath. You fill CA with troops and either put a full stack in WO or on the bridge. This should nullify the Mordor threat, if you're half decent at siege and bridge defence that is.

    This means that you're fielding at least 3 1/2 stacks purely for defensive reasons. This should be your main (preferably only) drain on your economy. It's then wise to get a few ships and send some troops down to take Harad's poorly defended coastal ports. Et voila, Harad's crying. From there, you just pummel Harad while keeping Mordor at bay, and then with the extra money you get from Harad's coastal regions you can push over into Mordor much better. I personally recommend sending 2 full stacks to take Minas Morgul, as once taken this is where Mordor will focus most of their armies. One stack defends the city, while the other replaces it while the first goes and gets retrained. At the same time, you can mop up the surrounding settlements and prepare for the inevitable journey to Barad Dur, and glory.

    I know this is very basic and probably a bit too late for your current campaign, however, this is the sort of plan that you need when playing Gondor, otherwise you can easily find one leg being chewed by an orc and the other trampled on by a Mumakil
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  3. #3
    caralampio's Avatar Magnificus
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    Gondor is the hardest faction by far.

  4. #4
    gluteus maximus aurelius's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by caralampio View Post
    Gondor is the hardest faction by far.
    Hmm, I personally found the OOTMM harder, as the dwarves would pummel my forces into oblivion, and i would find eriador hard if i ever played as them with their extremely poor units. IMO Gondor is only hard when played on H/H or higher when you don't use the right tactics. And if Rohan gets destroyed immediately and you suddenly have Isengard breathing down your neck.
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  5. #5
    Baron Samedi's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    Gondor is not too hard to play with, but they give you a nice challenge. You just need to pursue the right strategies.

    Here you can find some threads discussing Gondor strategies:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=279302

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=322059&highlight=gondor&page=2

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=312530&highlight=gondor

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=309808&highlight=gondor
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  6. #6
    Huor's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    Welcome to the Varsity of TATW. Difficulty and in depth guides aside, a Harad first strat with a chokepoint of sorts established just west of Minas Morgul to screen E. Osgiliath and the castle just south of it works best for me on vh/vh. The first 20 to 30 turns can be HAIRY though and you should be ready to lose a major city or an important leader as you wind your war machine to the breaking point. I have'nt lost both Osgiliaths yet though and I suspect that if you lose momentum there with successive Mordor stacks coming that could be a real problem as you wait for Harad to arrive circa turn 15. Lots of these guys use the Osgiliath bridge rope-a-dope defense on Mordor during their early campaign and you may want to read up on that as well. If possible fight in his space though and shield your troop and cash producing centers while using every free storage slot afforded you by the wall and the Ozzys while you get situated (imho). Congrats on your campaign though, sounds like you've been in a real fight! I'm not sure I could have lasted as long with all that pressure.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    Havent played many factions yet but so far Silvan Elves been easiest then Gondor (quite easy) and Rohan has been hardest by far.

    Unfortunately Third Age is built a game for conquerors, what i did as Gondor is that i charged straight into Harad (his going to attack you anyway) took half his lands till the river then he begged for mercy, took east untill Minas Ithil (bit stukc there now, and sent one force to North to take lands there and sell to Eriador.

    I would prefer the game to be able to play the way that i dont have to conquer half the Middle Earth but in that case you wount have enough funds to build an army even for your own defense. But as i said its near impossible to Roleplay this game out without beeing overrun by orc and evil men.

    What you have to be careful is the invasions, main problem is the armies that pop up for invasion and once invasion is over they will stay there and cause you much problem beeing so deep in your inland.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by IHV View Post

    I would prefer the game to be able to play the way that i dont have to conquer half the Middle Earth but in that case you wount have enough funds to build an army even for your own defense. But as i said its near impossible to Roleplay this game out without beeing overrun by orc and evil men.

    .
    exactly my thoughts regarding all total war games , the best way to win is to be aggresive and never have a stack sit still , on VH/VH with mods that make it harder than vanilla its usually the only way to win total war games.

  9. #9
    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    i also started a gondor campaign on vh/vh in 1.4
    i must say its not too hard. lack of money is restraining though and harad the toughest enemy but its ok. manageable.
    just conquer cair andros and osiligath in the begining and only defend it
    take on harad where they cross the river and build your economy - play time. once you are able to maintain a second stack use it to fight harad. the prince of dol amroth and his riders and boromir together with militias should get u over the 50 first rounds against harad without losing territory.

    then you have to go to the offensive stance and also build up your navy to crush harads.

    it is hard but fighting harad i usually have a 1:10 kill ratio so you dont need numbers to defeat them. gondor shouldnt be an easy faction i think.

    if its too hard for you just set the campaign map difficulty to normal or hard. this will amongs other things increase your income so you will be able to recruit more to take on the fight. no shame doing that
    Last edited by Ahlerich; January 27, 2010 at 06:12 AM.

  10. #10
    MDT's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    I always imagined OotMM to be the hardes faction, but actually never played them.
    My gondorian campaigns on the other hand weren't realy difficult with the right strategy. (but still challenging as startegical mistakes aren't forgiven so easily)

  11. #11
    Civis
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    I find Eriador hardest, most likly because im currently trying to solo moria with only a single stack of sylvan elves as help, and they have like five stacks in the field. Fricking gobs...

    My current gondor campaign is going fine. Harad hasent gotten really aggressive yet, as I sunk their navy when it tried to blockade me and they haven't moved north yet. Mordor had the fight taken out of it when they lost Kamul (or whoever he is) and the Witch king in the course of two turns, along with their entire army (they rebuilt/sent reinforcments quickly, but I have managed to accomplish all my short term goals besides cair).

    Personally, I only have one question-is it worth it to actually push into mordor, and try for a defense at minas ithial? Will doing so actually hurt mordors ability to field armies/help me any more then holding at osgiliath?

  12. #12
    Hero of the West's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by EmberFlame View Post
    I find Eriador hardest, most likly because im currently trying to solo moria with only a single stack of sylvan elves as help, and they have like five stacks in the field. Fricking gobs...

    My current gondor campaign is going fine. Harad hasent gotten really aggressive yet, as I sunk their navy when it tried to blockade me and they haven't moved north yet. Mordor had the fight taken out of it when they lost Kamul (or whoever he is) and the Witch king in the course of two turns, along with their entire army (they rebuilt/sent reinforcments quickly, but I have managed to accomplish all my short term goals besides cair).

    Personally, I only have one question-is it worth it to actually push into mordor, and try for a defense at minas ithial? Will doing so actually hurt mordors ability to field armies/help me any more then holding at osgiliath?
    when you hold minis ithil (minas morgul) they simply just can't get passed you.. the landscape is maked in such a wise that only one troop can attack you at at time.. perfect defensive position but very hard to take.. but when you hold it mordor will have to come through the black gates.. which makes them march for at least 3 or 4 extra turns.. in mean time you can make strenght in that fortress above osgiliaht and the village to the east of it.. so you can intercept the armies coming from the black gate :p if you fortify yourself like this.. you can completely focus on exterminating harad..


  13. #13
    MDT's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    In my Gondor campaigns mordor was kind of broken after I took minas ithil, but it's risky due to to the garrison scipt (thats one point where I realy like it, gondor campaign would be to easy without).

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    It's no good giving me guides, cos i wont use them I just think gondor should have a better income from the start. Not much but maby somthing like 10% because Its impossible to recover from a battle when the enemy can't run out of money.

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    Baron Samedi's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starwen View Post
    It's no good giving me guides, cos i wont use them
    Now that's the right spirit!
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  16. #16
    MDT's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starwen View Post
    I just think gondor should have a better income from the start. Not much but maby somthing like 10% because Its impossible to recover from a battle when the enemy can't run out of money.
    Well, but if you do it right you can claime 10-20 orcs for every fallen gondorian, giving more money would make you able to direktly attack mordor from the start.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starwen View Post
    It's no good giving me guides, cos i wont use them
    It's no good whining about gondor, cos we dont give a

  18. #18

    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starwen View Post
    It's no good giving me guides, cos i wont use them I just think gondor should have a better income from the start. Not much but maby somthing like 10% because Its impossible to recover from a battle when the enemy can't run out of money.

    Gondor should rather be weakened than strengthened, I think. But it's fine as it is really. Just run low tax and get some good generals in your cities for income.

  19. #19
    Baron Samedi's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by stoffi View Post
    Just run low tax and get some good generals in your cities for income.
    Yes good luck with generals that now have traits such as: ''BadTaxman''
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  20. #20
    Pietrak's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Gondor too hard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
    Yes good luck with generals that now have traits such as: ''BadTaxman''
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