Knights with mace( The Big Problem in SS 6.2

[PlautusLeo]

yeah its true. Many of the people I know complained about the knights with a mace, like gothic knigths.
GOthic Knights:
Unitsize: 60
Prize 1400$

Lancers:
Unitsize: 80
Prize 2300$

Gothic knights vs Lancers:
Victory - Gothics

////////////////////////////SS-Fix//////////////////////////////////////
Mongolian strengthen patch for SS 6.2 Beta compila (45.5 KB)
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2727



Something is wrong with SS!!!!!!
Same Problem with other anti panzer units

[SoulBlade]

Hi.

[Rolling Thunder]

Because a mace is a fundamentally better weapon against an armoured foe. Don't argue, it just is. It is almost impossibly to penetrate chainmail with a arming sword or a longsword - full plate is pretty much utterly proof against sword blows. Maces, on the other hand, are extremely good at punching through armour. However, maces are less effective against lightly-armoured troops.

[Abyrvalg]

Lancers are waaay better at charges on battlefield. Cos, for example, they survive better under the rain of arrows.
While GK are excellent heavy melee cavalry.
And, I dunno how it is in vanilla SS, but in RC/RR GK win very close, barely few survived head on lancer's charge and ensued melee.

Same Problem with other anti panzer units

What's the problem?
Anti-panzer unit wins against armored enemy?
I don't think it is problem

[Gogolometro]

But lancers cost a lot, and pikemans almost nothing.

[PlautusLeo]

Gothic knights have 16 charge bonus as Lancers, so what the hack is their lack?
I think mace units are always better than sword units.
Lancers suck!

And mongols spearmen are horrible. makes mognols boring

[Concrete]

Well, they are a horde of cavalry.
And the situational lancer flank can tear out a quarter of an army, provided they find the best flanking route.

[DeMolay]

You have to install RR/RC mod on your 6.2 install if you want more realistic units and stats for all factions . I highly recommend it

Lancers were all about the charge , they were not meant to stay in melee , but yes cavalry stats in vanilla 6.2 have a serious problem , 6.1 was much better ,but if you install RR/RC on 6.2 , you get the best mod around really (lots of new historically accurate and cool looking units etc ) , not just the best stats

[merocaine]

????

Don't charge your Lancers into anti Cavalry mounted troops!!

It doesn't take a genius to work that out. Lancers will take out any unit in the game one on one, apart from Mace wielding late era heavy cavalry. Thats what you pay your money for.
Also the key to there effective use is in there name, Lancers, charge rinse repeat.

[Concrete]

^
Even heavy pikemen???

[DeMolay]

he's right , Gothic cavalry is a very good anti-cavalry unit , a bit like mounted Huskarls but later version .
One shouldn't charge his Lancers on pikemen ofcourse SupremeTL , i think Merocaine meant the Lancers charge is very powerful against almost all units

[Concrete]

SupremeTL; I like it, +rep for you.
Tehehe, I like to find flaws in people's statements.

[Abyrvalg]

^
Even heavy pikemen???

Btw.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Tehehe, I like to find flaws in people's statements.

I like it too

[PerXX]

By the looks of it, the pikemen was marching, not bracing, so it doesn't quite count

[merocaine]

The sheer weight of the lancers charge will carry then deep into the pike formation, once inside most pike formations start to melt, well in the latest RR/RC anyway, to stop the lancers you need a combination of Guns/Pikes/2 handed.
Once you have a human driving those monsters no army is safe!

[PlautusLeo]

wow you guys never playeed SS 6.2 compilation beta as it seems.
GOthic knights are always better than lancers.
I dont give points, cz It would be rediculous to explain why it is as it is.
shame on you guys.

[Enomine]

In a head on charge Lancers will destroy pikemen as was demonstrated above. Being a living freight train beats a pile of pointy sticks. Oh and Gothic knights are NOT always better than Lancers, at least in the latest RR/RC. They have 60 men for one, and although they very narrowly beat Lancers in melee due to their AP maces, Lancers are better at the charge if for no other reason than they have 20 extra men. Also, if you are going to claim that Gothic Knights are always better than Lancers, the burden of proof is on you to explain why Gothic Knights are better in every possible situation than Lancers are. Or at least attempt to explain why, saying it would be ridiculous to explain why does not cut it.

[Gogolometro]

When lancers are available, so are the arbalesters, gunners and pikemens. I preffer to use more tercio combat and let ant cavalry powerhouse to die. Any late cavalry have ridiculous costs compared to very effective infantry.
Lanceres look cool, in fact any late cavalry look like that. Still if is not russian fields or dunno what blitzkrieg operations, heavy cavalry became outdated. We talk about lancers versus gothic, try more nice thing, the late fast venice light cavalry versus lancers or nice guys what HRE have named pistoliers. Thats the show.
Best thing is if you are FRance and face a mighty army of HRE, count on vulgiers, scots, gunners, and pikes. Let the HRE mighty gothic die in charge. In my experience, never saw a stack of tercio masacrated by cavalry, even a lancer one.
That example with scotland noble pikes is irrelevant. In a campaign you never face 1v1 batles, and plane field perfect for charges are rare. A weak unit but well deployed can be more usefull than a strong one placed underhill.

[Abyrvalg]

When lancers are available, so are the arbalesters, gunners and pikemens. I preffer to use more tercio combat and let ant cavalry powerhouse to die. Any late cavalry have ridiculous costs compared to very effective infantry.
Lanceres look cool, in fact any late cavalry look like that. Still if is not russian fields or dunno what blitzkrieg operations, heavy cavalry became outdated.

As you pointed out, in campaign 1 unit vs 1 unit battles are extremely rare.
Actually it is full scale battles, where lancers shine.
When your tercio is engaged with enemy's tercio you need something to finish battle asap, or you'll suffer casualties as heavy as your opponent.
1 or 2 units of lancers in your army just do cavalry's usual good old job. Flanking and rear charges.
And they do it waaaay better than any other cavalry due to their better armor and larger numbers.
It is ancient tactics Phalanx+shock cavalry > just phalanx It is just what Alexander the Great did in his battles

By the looks of it, the pikemen was marching, not bracing, so it doesn't quite count

Actually, they were bracing at the moment of impact

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[meese]

Heavy cavalry definitely doesn't become outdated. They simply can't be expected to be able to charge at will. As long as you can tie up the infantry as you did in the early and high eras, heavy cavalry will do the job even more effectively than before. Sure, the stradiots are nice, but you won't see them running through units. Nor will pistoliers. They're better at other things.