Holy Roman Empire in Empire

[PotentSchraphlon]

Not sure if this should be in the historical research section, but I'll put it in here for now.

I don't know a lot about the HRE but I think I'm right in saying it still existed in the 18th century? If so, how should this have been represented in the game, from the point of view of historical accuracy, rather than playability, coding etc? Would it be anything like the pope in M2 or the Senate in Rome for instance? Or was it just a formality that would have had no effect?

[Strategos Alexandros]

HRE existed in the form of Austria, but it is not the HRE of the medieval times.
You have to see the HRE as a class, lead by a teacher (emperor), but nobody is listening to him and everyone does what he wants to do (German States).
So it wouldn't add anything to the game. It is indeed a formality.

[PotentSchraphlon]

so it IS like the pope! lol

[jackwei]

Not sure if this should be in the historical research section, but I'll put it in here for now.

I don't know a lot about the HRE but I think I'm right in saying it still existed in the 18th century? If so, how should this have been represented in the game, from the point of view of historical accuracy, rather than playability, coding etc? Would it be anything like the pope in M2 or the Senate in Rome for instance? Or was it just a formality that would have had no effect?

EU III has a very realistic version of the HRE in the 18th century i believe

[Geronimo2006]

Technically, all the German states were part of the HRE. The princes were still known as "Electors", except for the King of Prussia. The HRE was abolished in 1806. However, in practice, the HRE Emperor (all but one of whom in the 18th century was the Habsburg ruler of Austria) was a figurehead by this time. This was because the Peace of Westphalia (1648), which ended the Thirty Years War, effectively granted full independence to its member states.

[PotentSchraphlon]

So would there be anything, legal or just ideological, stopping german states from attacking each other?

[Geronimo2006]

So would there be anything, legal or just ideological, stopping german states from attacking each other?

They were completely independent in foreign policy under the Treaty of Westphalia (1648). In fact, this had been conceded in 1644 after the French intervened on the side of the Protestants in the Thirty Years' War. After that, the Holy Roman Emperor was a mere figurehead outside of his own dominions (nearly always Austria except for one Bavarian in the 18th century and that was very brief).

[erasmus777]

Technically, all the German states were part of the HRE. The princes were still known as "Electors", except for the King of Prussia. The HRE was abolished in 1806. However, in practice, the HRE Emperor (all but one of whom in the 18th century was the Habsburg ruler of Austria) was a figurehead by this time. This was because the Peace of Westphalia (1648), which ended the Thirty Years War, effectively granted full independence to its member states.

The English monarchs were electors too, weren't they, because of the whole Hannoverian thing?

[Geronimo2006]

The English monarchs were electors too, weren't they, because of the whole Hannoverian thing?

Well yes, actually. What I mean is that in their capacity as princes of the HRE, they were all Electors - though some were also kings of territories not officially part of the HRE - such as Britain and maybe the part of the kingdom of Prussia outside of territory (like the Electorate of Brandenburg) originally part of the HRE.

[karamazovmm]

Yes, sausages.

Books are entertaining too, go read for a change.

That's why I like EB EULA.

[PotentSchraphlon]

Books are expensive and libraries smell. I only read the internet.
Thanks for the info, Geronimo

[Geronimo2006]

If the French hadn't intervened, it's quite likely the HR Emperor would have become somewhat more centralised. Richelieu bribed the Swedes to intervene while they built up their military-capabilities. Before then, the Emperor was winning. An interim settlement would have restored some measure of central control in the Empire. This was wrecked when the French intervened directly on the side of the Protestants. They didn't want to be surrounded by hostile Habsburg states.

[Imperator of Rome]

The Swedish didin't help the Catholic cause either.

[Geronimo2006]

The Swedish didin't help the Catholic cause either.

As one would expect given they were a Protestant power. France was not motivated by religion in this war, however. Their concern was containment of the Habsburg menace, which threatened to surround France with hostile territory in Iberia, Italy, Germany and Spanish America. Ironically, in the 17th century, Spain was also plotting with the Huguenots like the Duc de Biron to raise the Protestant Southwest of France in another rebellion against the Crown. Religion may have been the primary concern in Germany, but other matters motivated outside powers, not least the balance of power. In a sense, French policy at the time was a forerunner to that of Britain in the 18th century in terms of the concern with the balance of power.

[Langer Kerl]

Religion may have been the primary concern in Germany [...]

Hardly.

It was a great excuse for the German nobles to reach for more independence, weaken the Emperor's power and enhance their own.

[Imperator of Rome]

As one would expect given they were a Protestant power. France was not motivated by religion in this war, however. Their concern was containment of the Habsburg menace, which threatened to surround France with hostile territory in Iberia, Italy, Germany and Spanish America. Ironically, in the 17th century, Spain was also plotting with the Huguenots like the Duc de Biron to raise the Protestant Southwest of France in another rebellion against the Crown. Religion may have been the primary concern in Germany, but other matters motivated outside powers, not least the balance of power. In a sense, French policy at the time was a forerunner to that of Britain in the 18th century in terms of the concern with the balance of power.

True, as the French were catholic and they were more concerned with, aww, you already said it! The Thirty Years War was an interesting(I have read many quotes from a book about that war) and complex war.

[Captain Grimes]

I don't see anything wrong about having a stronger Germany....oh wait

[Imperator of Rome]

Yep, one of the Kings of England were actuallyclosely related to Frederick II. My memory fades me on which king it was though.

[Helloween Fan]

Yep, one of the Kings of England were actuallyclosely related to Frederick II. My memory fades me on which king it was though.

George I. I believe he was Frederick William I's maternal grandfather, though I could be wrong.

[TheFirstONeill]

Moved to historical research