Alliances

[Michael X]

Ok so here's what:

I was allied with OOMM, who were at war with HE. OOMM vanish, but Alliance is not an option in Diplomacy with HE. Our allies and enemies are perfectly ok (none is allied to any enemies of the other).

So why does this happen?...

[Baron Samedi]

Are you sure the OotMM are gone? Did you get the '''dead faction'' message (to rule out the evil factions-dead bug)?

[Michael X]

I don't remember getting it. However, they're off all statistics, diplomatic lists etc.

[sebsebseb1234]

use toggle_fow XD

[gluteus maximus aurelius]

Are they still a "living faction" in the faction stats scroll thing?

[Hero of the West]

which race are you? maybe natural enemies can never allie?

[Bloodzen]

which race are you? maybe natural enemies can never allie?

All the races in the game can ally and go to war with each other since the game is scripted so as the good factions don't attack each other and the same with the evil factions.This isn't full proof though but there are sub mods that fix it.

Use toggle_fow mate,its happened to me in a few campaigns that after I thought I defeated a faction they take a settlement where I wouldn't expect to find them without me knowing.

[Michael X]

I did! And I can't find them anywhere! I've double checked and they're nowhere to be found. As I said, they did vanish.

Now, there is a possibility they died because of lack of generals (there are a few rebel settlements all together in central Arnor). Last time I saw them, they were defeated in Byrig by HE.

[Withwnar]

I'm not sure if this is related or not but this looks like a good place to ask...

Playing HE in v1.3 I am allied with Dale who is at war with Silvans. I'm trying to get an alliance with Silvans so that those two call a ceasefire. I have done this before (within this campaign, I'm sure) but this time there is no Alliance diplomacy option and the HE-Silvan relations are Perfect.

Is it just a timing thing? I have to wait a while longer?

[BlackViper]

I'm not sure if this is related or not but this looks like a good place to ask...

Playing HE in v1.3 I am allied with Dale who is at war with Silvans. I'm trying to get an alliance with Silvans so that those two call a ceasefire. I have done this before (within this campaign, I'm sure) but this time there is no Alliance diplomacy option and the HE-Silvan relations are Perfect.

Is it just a timing thing? I have to wait a while longer?

You can't ally with the enemy if their enemy is your friend. So basically you can't ally with the Silvan elves if your allied with Dale.

[Withwnar]

"You can't ally with an ally's enemy" would make sense but I've done it before.

In v1.0 I did it multiple times in an attempt to end the HE-Eriador wars. And I clearly remember the thrill of stopping a v1.3 Silvan-Dwarven one; and the fury at them starting up again two turns later.

It's possible that the Dwarves/Silvans approached me regarding that Alliance but I don't think so.

[Baron Samedi]

"You can't ally with an ally's enemy" would make sense but I've done it before.

Weren't you playing some kind of submod, because iirc this is not possible in at least vanilla.

[Michael X]

In vanilla, allying with an ally's enemy is possible in the first turns I think and when you initiate diplomatic relations. Anyway there are criteria, but it can happen. However, it is useless the 98% of the times you do it, because they simply get to start a war next turn again.

[Seleukos_I.]

It sometimes is possible, sometimes not. I've not yet understood what system is behind this. MAybe somebody else has?

[el Cid]

It sometimes is possible, sometimes not. I've not yet understood what system is behind this. MAybe somebody else has?

In vanilla M2 I believe it was if your ally only was at war for a few turns, once the war was lasting for a longer time it is not possible anymore AFAIK.

[Seleukos_I.]

In vanilla M2 I believe it was if your ally only was at war for a few turns, once the war was lasting for a longer time it is not possible anymore AFAIK.

I don't think that's the case. In my current Gondor campaign a war broke out between Rohan and Silvan Elves, because Fangorn rebelled to SE. Well 3-4 turns later my diplomat reaches their settlement, but i can't offer them an alliance. So it must be something else.

[Withwnar]

Weren't you playing some kind of submod, because iirc this is not possible in at least vanilla.

In vanilla, allying with an ally's enemy is possible in the first turns I think and when you initiate diplomatic relations. Anyway there are criteria, but it can happen. However, it is useless the 98% of the times you do it, because they simply get to start a war next turn again.

I was wondering if this was the case. It was early in the v1.3 game when it happened.

The only submod I have ever used is Archon's diplomacy submod in v1.0 which is now incorporated. Maybe there was a bug in that early version of it, or perhaps my game was corrupted. I know that my 1.0 game was corrupted in other ways (culture was behaving strangely, for example).

Thanks gents. I'll keep my eyes open for it but I don't expect to see it. Reps all round!

EDIT:
It happened! (Yes, three months later and I'm still playing the same campaign. Some of us have to work...)

In frustration, and really wanting an Alliance with the Silvans, I broke my alliance with Dale and secured one with the Silvans instead. Out of interest I entered negotiations with Dale and there it was! The Alliance option. They were very happy to accept and behold! The hundred year war between the Silvans and Dale is over (for now).

It was either the same or the next turn that this breaking-reforging happened. Very curious.

[Withwnar]

(Forgive this bump and double-post but my above edit wasn't showing up as a new post.)

[Withwnar]

Maybe reputation or relations have something to do with it? Despite breaking the alliance with Dale they were still pretty happy with me when I asked for one again. No idea what my Reputation was. Plus I had been Dale's ally for a very long time.

[Venia]

Why would you want to ally with ootm?