ExRM 4.0

[rocknrollrefugee]

I've created this thread cuz I've heard a lot of buzz about Quintus and Carados creating an add-on/new mod/update for ExRM. I would like for us to discuss all the issues (like economy, recruiting etc) here if possible.

I think the best two mods are RS and RTR:ExRM both have their flaws and perfections. That said I compare them to one another and base my opinions and suggestion on those two.

My vision of the ultimate mod for RTW is the map, factions, skins and legion AOR (and details like names etc) from RS with the historically accurate ExRM with its economy, 4tpy, formations, leadership system, local AOR, citizenship build-up system (I could go on cuz its the best). Plus adding a new aspect of independent city-states (kinda like the "Free Peoples" in RS but with diplomacy options)

btw is it possible to use just the map and factions from RS on ExRM cause really thats all I want?

[ricka83]

I've created this thread cuz I've heard a lot of buzz about Quintus and Carados creating an add-on/new mod/update for ExRM. I would like for us to discuss all the issues (like economy, recruiting etc) here if possible.

I think the best two mods are RS and RTR:ExRM both have their flaws and perfections. That said I compare them to one another and base my opinions and suggestion on those two.

My vision of the ultimate mod for RTW is the map, factions, skins and legion AOR (and details like names etc) from RS with the historically accurate ExRM with its economy, 4tpy, formations, leadership system, local AOR, citizenship build-up system (I could go on cuz its the best). Plus adding a new aspect of independent city-states (kinda like the "Free Peoples" in RS but with diplomacy options)

btw is it possible to use just the map and factions from RS on ExRM cause really thats all I want?

Im definarely with you rocknrollrefugee,

i think the citizen biuld system, 4tpy, leadership system and local AOR in ExRM work brilliantly.
I love the scale of the the campaign map but would like some more settlements added especially in Gaul, scicily, italy and egypt. I think the econonmy system works well but i would like to replace some of the resources and tradebles item like "exotic animals" for maybe fish or grain " as mentioned in another thread "

Very much looking forward to the new version

Rik

[Carados]

I'm not going to say too much unless I get an all-clear to do so

We have hardcoded limits for various factors. A legion AOR won't happen. The number of settlements we can add is also limited. Italy is crowded enough as it is, so no more settlements will go there. Sicily is also quite crowded too. Gaul is a possibility. Egypt... maybe

We'll be sticking to the current map for the forseeable future. We might change it one day, but for the moment it's staying. Incidently, we are limited with the number of factions we can have. On top of that, RS and ExRM have completely different start dates. RS begins at the dawn of the 2nd Punic war I think, whilst we start off with the beginning of Pyrrhus's invasion of Italy in 280BC. Epirus is nothing in 218, but in 280 they are strong and are led by a potent general.

The Galatians are (possibly) going to appear in a different format compared to as they are now. Suffice to say, mainland Greece is going to be very interesting in the first few years. However, this isn't to say the Seleucid Empire is going to have things easy.

Another thing, because we've discussed it lots on the forums already, is that the we will have a systematized unit statistics system. This also includes the hidden stats (so things like morale etc). Hopefully, we'll be able to replicate battles so they pan out as they would have done back in the days. Army composition is going to be crucial, armies of principles will be no more! Likewise, stacking up on cavalry might be very disadvantageous if you don't pick your fights.

[Caligula Caesar]

About the maps, if you want to, you can use mine (it is pretty much done).

[rocknrollrefugee]

About the maps, if you want to, you can use mine (it is pretty much done).

is it compatible with 3.5.3b? and if so where can i get it? thanks

I'm not going to say too much unless I get an all-clear to do so

We have hardcoded limits for various factors. A legion AOR won't happen. The number of settlements we can add is also limited. Italy is crowded enough as it is, so no more settlements will go there. Sicily is also quite crowded too. Gaul is a possibility. Egypt... maybe

We'll be sticking to the current map for the forseeable future. We might change it one day, but for the moment it's staying. Incidently, we are limited with the number of factions we can have. On top of that, RS and ExRM have completely different start dates. RS begins at the dawn of the 2nd Punic war I think, whilst we start off with the beginning of Pyrrhus's invasion of Italy in 280BC. Epirus is nothing in 218, but in 280 they are strong and are led by a potent general.

The Galatians are (possibly) going to appear in a different format compared to as they are now. Suffice to say, mainland Greece is going to be very interesting in the first few years. However, this isn't to say the Seleucid Empire is going to have things easy.

Another thing, because we've discussed it lots on the forums already, is that the we will have a systematized unit statistics system. This also includes the hidden stats (so things like morale etc). Hopefully, we'll be able to replicate battles so they pan out as they would have done back in the days. Army composition is going to be crucial, armies of principles will be no more! Likewise, stacking up on cavalry might be very disadvantageous if you don't pick your fights.

Thats cool about the AoR legions (not that important just a nice little flare). RS does actually start in 280BC (you just gotta do a little research to figure out that 473 Ab Urbe Condita is 280 BC which is a little annoying but immersive) and Pyrrhus does control Tarentum but not Croton (under rebel/"free people" faction). One thing I did enjoy on RS is the fact that Gaul was combined with the Brits and place near Normandy while to the south (near Italy) were a "Free Peoples"/rebel faction. I was hoping this could be in ExRM but everywhere by making them "regional" factions with diplomacy options (alliance, protectorate, trade). Something Quintus was discussing somewhere but I know factions are limited so I don't know if thats possible. I've heard a lot of talk about correcting the unit stats in other threads and I'm excited to see what yall have cooked up. I got rid of RS cuz its just not historically accurate (other than the visuals which are great). So in the mean time I'll keep playing and add any more suggestions or whatever here.

[DoogansQuest]

is it compatible with 3.5.3b? and if so where can i get it? thanks



Thats cool about the AoR legions (not that important just a nice little flare). RS does actually start in 280BC (you just gotta do a little research to figure out that 473 Ab Urbe Condita is 280 BC which is a little annoying but immersive) and Pyrrhus does control Tarentum but not Croton (under rebel/"free people" faction). One thing I did enjoy on RS is the fact that Gaul was combined with the Brits and place near Normandy while to the south (near Italy) were a "Free Peoples"/rebel faction. I was hoping this could be in ExRM but everywhere by making them "regional" factions with diplomacy options (alliance, protectorate, trade). Something Quintus was discussing somewhere but I know factions are limited so I don't know if thats possible. I've heard a lot of talk about correcting the unit stats in other threads and I'm excited to see what yall have cooked up. I got rid of RS cuz its just not historically accurate (other than the visuals which are great). So in the mean time I'll keep playing and add any more suggestions or whatever here.

I believe he was referring to RS2; which does indeed start in 218 BC.

[Quinn Inuit]

It's also important to take into account that the AI also recruits mercenaries whenever it gets the chance to, irrespective of cost...

Really? I thought the increased cost was at least throttling them a bit. It must be the 0-recruitment time changing its cost calculations. I'll have to increase it again, I suppose.

That's a point. How are the merc pools worked out? The Seleucid empire has access to several large pools. Due to the superior wealth of the Seleucids they seem to recruit as many mercenaries as possible early on. On some occasions they'll "steal" the mercs from other factions, such as the the ptollies, and then proceed to wipe out those factions with the huge number of mercenaries they just recruited.

Still? Dang it. I tried to fix that a couple of versions ago by cutting merc pool regeneration by half. Was that still not enough? Most of the pools start the game pretty small, too.

I can't find the post where I asked this question before, so i'll ask again.

I'm trying to figure out which province will allow you to recruit Phocaean nobles?
You guys said Massilia, which I have just taken. But when I look in the building browser, no Phocaean noble unit is available to recruit.
In the building browser, it says I need "and hidden_resource aor_phok". This is great, but I have no idea where this is.
Could someone please enlighten me!

Thanks!

I've gone back and forth with Massilia being able to recruit them, or being treated like a normal Greek city (it was wealthy and advanced, more like a polis than a rude colony), so that's gone back and forth, too. I think they're recruitable there in the most recent version, and I know for a fact that you can get them a few regions west in Emporiae.

For the record, they're getting merged with Milesian nobles in 4.0. We need the DMB space.

I'm using 3.5.3 and I can see both in the east the Seleucids, Ptolemaics, Pontics, Armenians, Parthians and Bactrians relying mostly on home troops. On occasion I've seen 'merc-armies', one stack wholly of mercenaries by the Ptolemaics and the Galatians (playing that as Seleucids), but this after I had wiped out most of their regular armies. They seem to do that as a last resort - were the costs already higher then? I would rather see the armies of the east existing 50%-50% out of home-mercenary troops instead of these whole stacks; does anyone know why the AI does this currently?

3.5.3 does have the increased merc costs and decreased regeneration time.

That's an interesting data point, thank you. Do you play on M, H, or VH campaign?

I'd like to see mixed armies, too, ideally. I'm not sure how the AI decides what armies to support with mercenaries, but I've always assumed it just recruited them when it had a general in the area, the money, and the opportunity.

I have this experience that mostly the Ptolemaics do this, they still seem more wealthy than the Seleucids, especially in the beginning, due to the seatrade perhaps?

Quite possibly. The Ptolies are making serious money at the start of the game. They also have an unusually large merc pool in Alexandria, though, to represent their substantial reliance on mercs.

[Carados]

Really? I thought the increased cost was at least throttling them a bit. It must be the 0-recruitment time changing its cost calculations. I'll have to increase it again, I suppose.

Still? Dang it. I tried to fix that a couple of versions ago by cutting merc pool regeneration by half. Was that still not enough? Most of the pools start the game pretty small, too.

I'm not really sure. I only recruit cost-effective mercs or mercs to sacrifice in a single turn if I have a fair bit of money excess. I have seen a full selection of mercs availible when I enter a new pool, I usually get a few to aid with garrison duty or to act as tough infantry to complement my typically superior cavalry (I tend to play Armenia or Pontus in the East) - in the Seleucid phase of that same turn they usually recruit every single left over mercenary unit in the pool from a nearby general.

[Caligula Caesar]

Well, no, I actually developed it for my own mod. It'd be quite a lot of descr_strat work to port it over, but that's the case for any map. Here you can see some screenshots.

[Maurits]

CC, I really like that map. One thing I wonder about: why aren't you, quinn and carados (+others not mentioned) joining forces to create a super-ExRm experience in the (then only available name) 4.0??

I'd really like your great map and FOE things combined with Quinn's experience in ExRm. Together with new people like Carados you might be able to create a great mod, instead of working on own projects.

[Caligula Caesar]

I know, the world is a silly place

I'd be willing to work together with ExRM with the conditions that a) we use my map (that took ages to create), and b) that we can agree on a faction list. It would be nice to finish the mod on my own, but that will take a while, and TBH it's more fun to mod in a team (Antonov hasn't done anything since October except for hold a few interesting conversations). It may be of interest to you that I have completed a new, more detailed generic faction tree plan which works for all factions. Unfortunately, I have only made it for Rome and Carthage so far. Making it for the rest isn't really a problem, but it takes time, and I have discovered massive gaps in the AoRs. I don't have much experience with adding units and balancing them, though (and my build is an antiquated model, I think). Besides, if I look at the latest updates on the FOE 2 Beta, the graphical improvement they have made on the building cards/ui/ect are pretty awesome. It would be pretty difficult to keep up on my own, when I am also putting quite a bit of effort into the traits side of the RTR project...

[AtlasGR]

The Galatians should be a horde starting at Dunabe'w regions and moving down to pillage Greece. As far as I know the Galatia in Asia Minor was created at about 245 BC , and didn't exist in 280 BC .
Wouldn't be cool to have a playable horde faction ?

[Caesar Augustus]

I would be most interested in seeing an EXRM "Gold Edition" type thing, obviously this would be down to the talented folk who are possessed of these skills. Of course, I'd need to get an install that I don't somehow screw up haha

From what I've gathered, Galatia are indeed going to be a horde faction, I'm curious to see if they will be playable or they will be AI only (and then maybe have scripted movement etc to ensure they end up in the right place?)

I'd like to see the new battle stats in action, I've seen Quinn, Carados and various others discussing them on here, but to me it's all gibberish until I see it in gameplay.

The super/mini/whatever they're currently being called factions are the main thing I'm excited about though

EDIT: I doubt there's much I can do that will be of any use, but if there's anything I can lend the team a hand with ie beta testing or stuff that doesn't require modding skill, give me a shout.

[rocknrollrefugee]

just found this website: http://www.roman-empire.net/army/army-pictures.html

lots of info and pictures of actual armor and weapons.

I was thinking about velites having a quiver either on the belt or back for their extra javelins.
Something else I think deserves attention is formations, combat commands like the wedge, repel cavalry, orb could be useful.

[Quinn Inuit]

I'm really tired, so this is going to be a little disjointed. ADVapologiesANCE.

I'm not sure if we're going to do scripted movement for the Galatians. We'll see how they go. I'd rather not do so if I can avoid it.

CC: your map is nearly done? Congratulations! That's quite an accomplishment. And your build is antiquated, unfortunately. We may need to give you SVN access so we can keep you up to date. The units are a long way from done, but we're making good progress.

Don't worry about the AOR holes. I've nearly got those taken care of. Here's a copy of the notes from the dev version of descr_regions:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

; 195 provinces (the other five are sea regions)
;
; resources (26 types): amber, camels, copper, dogs, elephants, furs, glass, gold, dogs, hides, incense, iron, lead, marble,
; olive_oil, pigs, pottery, purple_dye, silk, silver, slaves, textiles, timber, tin, wild_animals, wine
; All timber tags have been removed from this file. It's going to rely on descr_strat solely. -ExRM 3.5
; In retrospect, that may have been a bad idea. -Q.I., ExRM v3.5.3+
;
; ~~~~General Notes~~~~
;
; All regions with a port are now commented as having one. The sea_lanes resource no longer exists.
;
; ~~~~New hidden resource system for ExRM v4.0~~~~
;Step 1: Many "unit" resources will now be replaced with multi-use resources.
;Step 2: To recruit these units, they'll need their AOR tag and their multi-use tag
;Step 3: ???
;Step 4: Profit!
;
; area of recruitment (aor) tags: aor_arab, aor_lydia, aor_celt, aor_dacia, aor_egypt, aor_galat, aor_gaul,
; aor_greek, aor_hill, aor_iber, aor_illyr, aor_indi, aor_italy, aor_mace, aor_thrace,
; aor_numid, aor_pers, aor_punic, aor_scyth, judaea, aor_levant, aor_mil,
; aor_anatolia, aor_cap, aor_germ, aor_ionia, aor_syria, aor_mesopotamia, aor_cauc,
; aor_bactria, aor_celtib
;
; special tags: rome (defines location of Roma)(NOTE: must have to prevent CTD around 66BC)
; italy (defines area for building of imperial palace for Marian Reforms event to occur)
;
; general tags (used by EDB): colony (where Greeks can establish a trading center), major_port, trade_hub, tax_red
;
; single-use tags: unit_sparta, unit_corinth, unit_athen, unit_syr
; unit_epirote, unit_sinope, unit_rome, unit_crete
; unit_marsi, unit_etruria, unit_samnite
;
; culture home region tags: home_illyria, home_numidia, home_parthia, judaea,
; baltic_coast, ne_germany, w_germany, ce_germany, c_germany
;
; Unused tags: aor_italy, aor_phok, unit_tarentum
;
;
; Multi-use tags: multi_1 + aor_greek = Aetolia | multi_1 + aor_iber = Baleares
; multi_1 + aor_mace = Thessaly | multi_1 + aor_punic = Carthage
; multi_1 + aor_gaul = Gallic Veneti | multi_1 + aor_cap = Cilicia
; multi_1 + aor_pers = Arachosia | multi_1 + italy = Veneti
; mutli_1 + aor_cauc = Caucasian Albania and Iberia (aor_cauc + aor_mil = Colchis)
; multi_2 + aor_greek = Rhodes | multi_2 + aor_hill = Media
; multi_2 + aor_cap = pontus | multi_2 + aor_iber = Lusitania
; multi_2 + aor_cauc = armenia | multi_2 + judaea = Israel
; aor_mil + multi_3 != Black Sea | multi_3 + aor_greek = Tarentum
;

As you can see, the AsOR are much more detailed now, and I'm not even done yet. btw, any requests while I'm at it? I'm running low on ideas for different areas. (I'm probably going to do a Carmania/Gedrosia one.)

RRR: We can't really replicate most of those combat commands, sorry.

Carados: The systematization you've done is awesome. It really is an impressive bit of work.
I think RRR is talking about the named legions function you can do with descr_regions.txt. (We certainly couldn't do all different skins a la Imperator II.) We can implement that, I suppose, but I've never been too keen on it. I don't really like how the game numbers the units. AFAIK, it should be Legio XX Valeria Victrix {Cohort} 1, not Legio I Valeria Victrix, Legio II Valeria Victrix, etc. It just bugs me.

Re: RS features
I respect the RS team a great deal, but they made some very different unit choices than we have, and I think that limits the amount of integration there could be with them.

[Maurits]

So if I'm right your projects will join so that we may see an even better next version of ExRm??

[Caligula Caesar]

Well, here is my AoR system:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;AoRs:
; barbaria:
; large1 = Gaul
; small1 = Veneti
; small2 = Helvetii
; small3 = Massalia
; small4 = Liguria
; small5 = Aquitani
; large2 = Belgica
; small1 = Briton
; small2 = Caledonia
; large3 = Iberia
; small1 = Celtiberi
; small3 = Cantabri
; small2 = Native Iberian
; small3 = Lusitania
; small5 = Greek
; small6 = Punic
; small4 = Baliaric
; large4 = Germania
; small1 = West Germania
; small2 = Chatti
; small3 = Batavia
; small4 = Suebi
; small5 = East Germania
; small2 = Naharnarval
; small6 = Aestui
;
; eastbarbaria:
; large1 = Illyria
; large2 = Thracia
; small1 = Dacia
; small2 = Thrace
; small3 = Greek
; small4 = Bastarnae
; large3 = Sarmatia
; small1 = Black Sea Colonies
; large4 = Sakai
; small1 = Dahae
;
; italy:
; rome = Rome (no really!)
; large1 = Oscan
; small1 = Marsi
; small2 = Samnium
; small3 = Campani
; small4 = Greek
; large2 = Etruria
; large3 = Brutii
;
; africa:
; large1 = Punic
; capital = Carthage
; large2 = Numidian
; large3 = Egypt
; capital = Alexandria
; small1 = Meroe
; large4 = Arabia
;
; hellas:
; large1 = Greece
; small1 = Athens
; small2 = Sparta
; small3 = Corinth
; small4 = Achaia
; small5 = Aitolia
; large2 = Macedonia
; capital = Pella
; small1 = Epirus
; small2 = Thessalia
; large3 = Greek Islands
; small1 = Sicilia
; small3 = Punic
; small5 = Syracusae
; small7 = Mamertine
; small2 = Crete
; small4 = Rhodos
; small6 = Sardinia and Corsica
; small3 = Sardinia
; small7 = Corsica
; large4 = Asia Minor
; small1 = Hellenic
; capital = Pergamon
; small3 = Por Hayk
; small4 = Bithynia
; small2 = Hills
; capital = Pontos
; small3 = Cappadocia
; small4 = Cilicia
; small6 = Lycian
; small5 = Galatian
;
; persia:
; large1 = Syria (ancient, not modern )
; capital = Antioch
; small1 = Punic
; small2 = Judaea
; small3 = Syria (modern)
; large2 = Babylonia
; capital = Seleukeia
; small1 = Arabian
; small2 = Babylonian
; small3 = Elamite
; large3 = Armenia and Media
; small1 = Armenia
; capital = Armavir
; small2 = Iberia
; small3 = Media
; large4 = East
; small1 = Persia
; small2 = Arachosia + Gedrosia
; small3 = Parthia
; small4 = Baktria
;
; india:
; capital = Ujjain
; small1 = hill tribes
; small2 = Gandhara
; capital = Taxila

In total: 20 hidden resources for 130 odd regions...

And here is the list of units I have as AoRs, as well as those that are missing:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;Italy
recruit "Picene Hoplite" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource italy and hidden_resource large1 ; and not building_present_min_level hinterland_reform_building marius
recruit "aor etrurian hoplite" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource italy and hidden_resource large2 ; and not building_present_min_level hinterland_reform_building marius
recruit "aor marsi swordsmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource italy and hidden_resource large1 and hidden_resource small1 ; and not building_present_min_level hinterland_reform_building marius
recruit "Marsi Spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource italy and hidden_resource large1 and hidden_resource small1 ; and not building_present_min_level hinterland_reform_building marius
recruit "Marsi Heavy Spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource italy and hidden_resource large1 and hidden_resource small1 ; and not building_present_min_level hinterland_reform_building marius
recruit "aor etrurian spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource italy and hidden_resource large2 ; and not building_present_min_level hinterland_reform_building marius
recruit "Samnite Heavy Infantry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource italy and hidden_resource large1 and hidden_resource small2 ; and not building_present_min_level hinterland_reform_building marius
recruit "Samnite Light Infantry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource italy and hidden_resource large1 and hidden_resource small2 ; and not building_present_min_level hinterland_reform_building marius
recruit "aor italy skirmisher" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and not marian_reforms and hidden_resource italy
recruit "aor italy cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and not marian_reforms and hidden_resource italy
recruit "aor Tarantine Light Cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource italy and hidden_resource large1 and hidden_resource small4
;Africa
recruit "aor numidia punic elephant" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and resource elephants and hidden_resource africa
recruit "aor numidia punic elephant tower" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and resource elephants and hidden_resource africa
recruit "aor punic spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large1 ;Libyan Hoplites
recruit "aor punic heavy cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large1 ;Libyan Cavalry
recruit "merc libyan infantry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large1
recruit "aor numidia spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large2 ;Berber Javelinmen... hmmm
recruit "aor numidia skirmisher" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large2
recruit "aor numidia punic light cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large1 or hidden_resource large2
recruit "carthaginian archer" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large2
recruit "aor egypt spearmen" 0 requires factions { pergamon, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large3
recruit "aor egypt archer" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large3
recruit "aor egypt heavy cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large3
recruit "merc nubian spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large3 and hidden_resource small1
recruit "merc arab infantry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large4
recruit "merc arab cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large4
recruit "merc bedouin archers" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large4
recruit "merc bedouin" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource africa and hidden_resource large4
;Colonies
recruit "colonial hoplite militia" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource colony
recruit "colonial heavy hoplite militia" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource colony
recruit "aor greece skirmisher" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource colony
;Iberia ;erm... to be changed... dramatically
recruit "aor spain infantry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large3 ;to be Iberian Scutarii, need Celtiberian
recruit "aor spain spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large3 ;to be Lusitani Caetrati
recruit "aor spain skirmisher" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large3 ;to be Caetrati Tribesmen
recruit "aor spain cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large3 ;to be Iberian Scutarii Cavalry
;need: Caetrati Cavalry, Celtiberian Cavalry, Cantabrian Cavalry
recruit "merc balearic slingers" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large3 and hidden_resource small4
;Gaul
recruit "aor gaul roman spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large1 and marian_reforms ;to be replaced by Graeco-Gauls (?)
recruit "aor gaul spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large1 or hidden_resource large2
recruit "aor gaul swordsmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large1 or hidden_resource large2
recruit "aor gaul slinger" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large1 or hidden_resource large2
recruit "aor gaul light cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large1 or hidden_resource large2
recruit "aor gaul heavy cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large1 or hidden_resource large2
recruit "slave briton swordsmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large2 and hidden_resource small1
;units to be added: Belgae Heavy Swordsmen, Arverni Heavy Swordsmen, Ligurians, Cisalpine Spearmen, Graeco-Gallic Spearmen (perhaps)
;Germania
recruit "aor german warband" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small1
recruit "german clubmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small5 and hidden_resource small6
recruit "aor german batavian" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small1 and hidden_resource small3
recruit "aor german lightcav" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large4
recruit "aor rtr german swords" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource barbaria and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small5
;Illyria
recruit "aor illyria spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource eastbarbaria and hidden_resource large1
recruit "aor illyria skirmisher" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource eastbarbaria and hidden_resource large1
recruit "aor illyria slinger" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource eastbarbaria and hidden_resource large1 ;not needed - illyrian cavalry needed
;Thrace
recruit "aor thrace infantry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource eastbarbaria and hidden_resource large2 and hidden_resource small2
recruit "aor thrace slinger" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource eastbarbaria and hidden_resource large2
recruit "aor thrace light cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource eastbarbaria and hidden_resource large2
recruit "aor thrace heavy cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource eastbarbaria and hidden_resource large2 and hidden_resource small2
recruit "merc bastarnae" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource eastbarbaria and hidden_resource large2 and hidden_resource small4
recruit "merc thracian" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource eastbarbaria and hidden_resource large2 and hidden_resource small1
;Steppe
recruit "aor sarmatia archer" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource eastbarbaria and hidden_resource large3
recruit "aor sarmatia heavy cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource eastbarbaria and hidden_resource large3
recruit "aor sarmatia roman cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and marian_reforms and hidden_resource eastbarbaria and hidden_resource large3
recruit "aor sarmatia skirmisher" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource eastbarbaria and hidden_resource large3
recruit "merc horse archers" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource eastbarbaria and hidden_resource large3
;Need Saka units
;India (lol)
recruit "aor india spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource india ;No! We need swordsmen!
recruit "aor india infantry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource india ;These could become Longbowmen
recruit "aor india elephant" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and resource elephants and hidden_resource india
;Needed: Indian Hillmen, Indian Light Cavalry, Indian Chariots, Gandharan Cavalry
;Greece
recruit "aor greece spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large1
recruit "greek hoplite militia" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large1
recruit "aor greece skirmisher" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large1
recruit "greek heavy peltast merc" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large1
recruit "aor greece skirmisher" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large2
recruit "greek heavy peltast merc" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large2
recruit "aor macedon phalanx" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large2
recruit "aor macedon slinger" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large2
recruit "aor greece macedon cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large2
recruit "aor greece thessalian cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large2 and hidden_resource small2
;Asia Minor
recruit "aor greece spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small1 and not hidden_resource small4
recruit "greek hoplite militia" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small1
recruit "aor greece skirmisher" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small1
recruit "greek heavy peltast merc" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small1 and not hidden_resource small4
recruit "aor thrace infantry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small1 and hidden_resource small4
recruit "aor thrace heavy cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small1 and hidden_resource small4
recruit "aor hills skirmisher" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small2 ;Anatolian Skirmishers
; recruit "aor hills slinger" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small2 ;Anatolian Slingers
recruit "aor hills spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small2 ;Anatolian Spearmen
recruit "aor hills swordsmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small2 ;Anatolian Swordsmen
recruit "merc cilician pirate" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small2 and hidden_resource small4
recruit "aor galatia swordsmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small5
recruit "aor galatia chariot" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small5
recruit "aor galatia cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small5
recruit "aor galatia slinger" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large4 and hidden_resource small5
;need Lycian Hillmen, Cappadocian Cavalry (I think I have that), Pontic Hillmen
;Persia
recruit "aor india elephant" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and resource elephants and hidden_resource persia
recruit "aor eastern spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource persia and not hidden_resource large1 and not hidden_resource large3 ;need axemen, I think
recruit "aor persia phalanx" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource persia and hidden_resource large1 or hidden_resource large2
recruit "aor persia cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource persia and not hidden_resource large1 and not hidden_resource large3
recruit "aor persia archer" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource persia and not hidden_resource large1 and not hidden_resource large3
recruit "aor persia skirmisher" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource persia and not hidden_resource large1 and not hidden_resource large3
; ----- Syria
recruit "aor asia roman archer" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource persia and hidden_resource large1 and hidden_resource small3
recruit "judea zealots" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource persia and hidden_resource large1 and hidden_resource small2
;need Phoenician AoRs, Levantine Spearmen
; ----- Babylonia
;need Elamite Archers and Babylonian Spearmen
recruit "merc arab infantry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource persia and hidden_resource large2 and hidden_resource small2
recruit "merc arab cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource persia and hidden_resource large2 and hidden_resource small2
; ----- Armenia and Media
recruit "aor asia archer" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource aor_asia ;Caucasian Archers
recruit "aor asia skirmisher" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource aor_asia ;Caucasian Skirmishers
recruit "aor asia cavalry" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource aor_asia ;Caucasian Hippokontistai
;need Iberian Lancers, Iberian Spearmen, Armenian Heavy Cavalry, Caucasian Hillmen
; ----- Persia
;need Parthian Spearmen, Bactrian Hillmen, Sogdian Horse Archers, Arachosian Hippokontistai,
;Greek Islands
recruit "merc rhodian slingers" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large3 and hidden_resource small4
recruit "merc cretan archers" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large3 and hidden_resource small2
recruit "aor greece spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large3 and not hidden_resource small2 and not hidden_resource small6
recruit "greek hoplite militia" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large3 and not hidden_resource small6
recruit "aor greece skirmisher" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large3
;Syracusan Hoplites
recruit "aor punic spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large3 and hidden_resource small1 and hidden_resource small3
recruit "aor punic spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large3 and hidden_resource small6 and hidden_resource small3
recruit "colonial hoplite militia" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large3 and hidden_resource small6 and hidden_resource small7
recruit "aor etrurian spearmen" 0 requires factions { spqr, } and hidden_resource hellas and hidden_resource large3 and hidden_resource small6 and hidden_resource small7
;Nuragic AoRs

I know where most of the western units are going to come from: FoE (2) I suppose I'll probably fill in the gaping holes in the East with Aqd's units. That's my plan, anyway.

So, my faction list is Rome, Carthage, Celtiberia, the Arverni, the Belgae, the Cherusci, the Achaian League, the Greek Minifaction (also known as a Superfaction ), the Barbarian Minifaction, Macedon, the Getai, the Steppe Tribes (Sarmatians + Alans + Saka), Pergamon, Pontos, Armenia, Parthia, the Seleucids, the Ptoleys, Bactria and the Mauryan Empire. I suppose you'll want the Galatians, but I'm not sure which faction to take out. TBH, I'd be inclined to remove the Greek Minifaction.

[rocknrollrefugee]

CC: well I would say combine cherusci and belgae (germanic tribes) and put in Epirote faction (must have because Epirus was a major player in 3rd Century!) but they should control Epirus, Tarentum, and Syracuse (although they were strong allies of Epirus mainly Pyhrrus, naming him King of Sicily around 275BC). Replace greek minifaction with Aetolian league or Hellenistic League (btw like the achaian league!). If you have pergamon i don't see the need for galatians. Mauryan Empire is awesome! barbarian minifaction (does that mean playable?)? Maybe getting rid of them and placing Syracuse (of course Epirote couldn't have Syracuse, in which case maybe giving them Croton would suffice or just Epirote Tarentum idk). If not Syracuse maybe Gauls near Normandy/Northern France possibly southern England? Anyway map looks great, don't know if I wanna go through all that code. Maybe QI and Carados will use it.

map showing greek city-states/Aetolian League: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ma...orld_c.200.png
map dated around 200bc of the factions/tribes in the E. hemisphere: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-Hem_200bc.jpg

[Carados]

RS does actually start in 280BC (you just gotta do a little research to figure out that 473 Ab Urbe Condita is 280 BC which is a little annoying but immersive)

Oops! Well if RS starts at 280 then I must've gotten confused with AqD's mod somewhere down the line?

I'm not sure if we're going to do scripted movement for the Galatians. We'll see how they go. I'd rather not do so if I can avoid it.

I think we can get away without scripted movement. I have some ideas already. Heh heh.

I know where most of the western units are going to come from: FoE (2) I suppose I'll probably fill in the gaping holes in the East with Aqd's units. That's my plan, anyway.

We'll be using some of FOE too. I believe Quinn already has AqD's permission to use some of his, too.

I'd rather have Epirus over the Galatians on a personal basis.

The faction list we're planning on using is:
Rome, Carthage, Celtiberians, Gauls, Germans, Sarmatians, Dacians, Epirus, Chremonidean league, Macedon, Galatians, Pontus, Armenia, Parthia, Bactria, Seleucid empire, Ptolemaic empire. As well as the barbarian, greek and "eastern" minifactions.

I'll let Quinn get back to you about it though.

[rocknrollrefugee]

The faction list we're planning on using is:
Rome, Carthage, Celtiberians, Gauls, Germans, Sarmatians, Dacians, Epirus, Chremonidean league, Macedon, Galatians, Pontus, Armenia, Parthia, Bactria, Seleucid empire, Ptolemaic empire. As well as the barbarian, greek and "eastern" minifactions.

Chremonidean league nice!

I only counted 19 factions including "mini" ones. Maybe adding Mauryan Empire if the map is that big?

Barbarian Greek? Barbarian "eastern"? Is this the solution to the diplomatic "independent city-states"? If so will Syracuse be part of this Barbarian "Greek" minifaction or will Epirus control Syracuse?

Are the Gauls in control of Mediolanium and Patavium still? (cuz it annoying that they grow so fast and also historically they were in northern france though they migrated many places)

I would say Pergamon was more important than Galatia. I just don't see the need for them. n: