Knights Templar Strategies

[Tokugawa]

I'm really enjoying the Templar Knights, I don't know why but they are really fun. Anyways, what are the best strategies for using them in battle? I really like the Templar Knights cavalry unit, do they have any other units that you should use no matter who you're fighting? I've been currently at war with the Khwaz teal horde of doom and does anyone have any awesome strategies for crippling them in battle? Right now I'm just letting them come into the meat grinder that are bridge battles. What are the best units that any templar man should have in his army?

[Ba'alzamon]

Lots and lots of archers. The factions surronding the Knights Templar's Regions are full of horseback riding Islams who would love to plant their arrows on the pre-made target the Templars have kindly painted on for them.

[Nick_Since_1985]

Call a crusade at the start of the game against Cairo, don't crusade with them immidiatly wait 8 turns or so...


Greetz

Nick

[JorisofHolland]

Heavy Infantry is always usefull as you can cut through enemy siege defenders (with the exception of the Romans, respectfully) with very few casualties.
Heavy Cavalry allow you to crush any enemy cavalry and break their line, sometimes a straightforward cavalry charge is more devastating than tieing them up with infantry and then charging at their rear.
I don't remember anything about the Templar archers, but I think they are good enough to outshoot most mounted archers the Islamic factions will field against you.

Try to avoid field battles. Your men are very effective in sieges and bridge battles (as you mentioned), but enemy horse archers can fire arrows at you from all sides and it will take quite some time to take those down. In a siege, your own cavalry will catch them before them can do harm.

[Goofy]

I partly disagree with JorisofHolland. I'm playing SS 6.1 VH\VH and don't try to avoid field battles (though I grant Templars are quite good in sieges, but archers are usually really ineffective when conquering a settlement), in fact I always try to battle in the field. And here are some results (see my army composition, it gives some kind of basis to your armies, though my infantry units are very poor in general).

Though perhaps your advice works better with Kwarezmians than Fatimids, I've had a war against Fatimids only.

But I don't understand why to make faction-specific battlefield tactics threads. Practically every faction has quite similar strategy to others, just with different units.
However, it makes sense to ask what to do on the strategic map. And it's the thing I can advice you even better, I've almost destroyed the Fatimids in less than 70 turns and the number would be smaller if I hadn't besieged their settlements for so many turns.

I always prefer defensive formations, I place my infantry to a strong line, crossbows on some small hill and archers first in front of the melee infantry line, then, when the enemy gets closer, I run away behind my strong defensive line. Trebuchets and catapults give a good boost to your army's performance.

Btw, as an extra tip, use lots of crossbows because Fatimids are lacking heavily armoured troops, especially cavalry.

Lots and lots of archers. The factions surronding the Knights Templar's Regions are full of horseback riding Islams who would love to plant their arrows on the pre-made target the Templars have kindly painted on for them.

That's not my experience. I think the common ratio (at the starting turns of the campaign) between infantry-cavalry troops is some 6:1, so I can say that at least in the case of Fatimid Caliphate Dismounted Arab Cavalry is the biggest reason to be worried.
But it's still wise to use lots and lots of archers, however.

I've been currently at war with the Khwaz teal horde of doom and does anyone have any awesome strategies for crippling them in battle?

You have two weapons: defensive formations and fear. Use them wisely.

What are the best units that any templar man should have in his army?

The best units at all? Or the best units available quite early in the campaign?

Knights Hospitaller - their guild is quite easy to get due to big amount of muslims in the Holy Land

Templar Confrere Knights - practically the only proper heavy cavalry troop they can get without any guild

Turkopoles - their only mounted archers, really effective

Peasant Archers - quite effective and fear causing with flaming missiles, almost really

Muslim Archers - effective, average range

Dismounted French Archers - very effective with long range and sharpened stakes

Peasants - supreme troops of your army, but very expensive, really

Swiss Guard - extremely effective in defensive combat with armour piercing weapons; these guys slaughter cavalry with ease

Dismounted Knights Templar - basic heavy infantry

Templar Zweihander - effective attackers, use during the late minutes of the battle; most likely charge from the rear or side

Templar Crossbowmen - basic crossbowmen for defeating cavalry

Noble Spearmen - excellent spearmen with high morale

Templar Squires - low attack but hold armour piercing maces, average defense

Templar Guard - very great defensive troops with swords

= almost all of their troops

Hope it helped
~Da Goofy

[JorisofHolland]

I always prefer defensive formations, I place my infantry to a strong line, crossbows on some small hill and archers first in front of the melee infantry line, then, when the enemy gets closer, I run away behind my strong defensive line. Trebuchets and catapults give a good boost to your army's performance.

That's the most standard strategy, because it's easy and effective.

Btw, as an extra tip, use lots of crossbows because Fatimids are lacking heavily armoured troops, especially cavalry.

They lack armour, as you said, so you shouldn't use crossbows. The only thing crossbows are good for is bringing down heavily armoured, slow moving soldiers. Against lighter targets they loose from archers.[/QUOTE]

BTW: In most of your battles (at least the ones you posted) you seem to outnumber the enemy by around 1000 men, whilst I rarely have half the ammount of men the enemy has. Maybe that explains the difference between our tactics.

[Tokugawa]

Here is my best general. Took him on a crusade when he was only 16. He is already a force to be reckon with. Do you see the teal horde of doom in on the campaign map? I have never seen the khwaz grow to be this strong, its kinda nice!

[Fremen Jones]

Here is my best general. Took him on a crusade when he was only 16. He is already a force to be reckon with. Do you see the teal horde of doom in on the campaign map? I have never seen the khwaz grow to be this strong, its kinda nice!

Wow you gonna have much fun with that general
Nice army btw

And he's only 24 lol ..

Awesome to see so big empires .. The Russians or Novgorods didn't seem to do very well there

Also never seen KWaz & Byzantines grow so strong !

Noble Spearmen - excellent spearmen with high morale

Can they do shieldwall?

[Callawyn]

Here is my best general. Took him on a crusade when he was only 16. He is already a force to be reckon with. Do you see the teal horde of doom in on the campaign map? I have never seen the khwaz grow to be this strong, its kinda nice!

Is that Portugal in England?

I used to use 2 trebuchets in each army, since I'm always focused on capturing regions. They are definitely useful in field battles. First, put them on flaming ammo, has an area effect when it hits. Yes, accuracy is less but you WILL get a LOT more kills due to the area effect. After you fire a couple rounds, switch to throwing cows (shorter range than your other ammo). The morale effect is significant. Target enemy units on either end of the line and watch where the cows go, once you get a couple good tosses switch back to the area effect ammo and just leave it on autofire (can micromanage if you want, but if you target something too close to friendly troops it may not fire at all, autofire seems to work pretty well picking targets that it will actually fire at).

Lately, I've started using 1 Treb + 1 Mangonel (or 2 and 1 or sometimes 1 and 2). Mangonel is amazing in field battles. With standard sized units, I typically get over 100 kills per mangonel. Even better, any unit that gets hit takes a morale hit due to the flaming ammo. When you combine the morale hit of the flaming ammo with the morale hit of the rotting carcasses the trebs throw, and add in a Dread commander (you are going dread with your army commanders, yes?) and the AI armies run away pretty easily.

[JorisofHolland]

Is that Portugal in England?

No, that are the Templars.

[sbroadbent]

I'm really enjoying the Templar Knights, I don't know why but they are really fun. Anyways, what are the best strategies for using them in battle? I really like the Templar Knights cavalry unit, do they have any other units that you should use no matter who you're fighting? I've been currently at war with the Khwaz teal horde of doom and does anyone have any awesome strategies for crippling them in battle? Right now I'm just letting them come into the meat grinder that are bridge battles. What are the best units that any templar man should have in his army?

If you want an example of the first 65 turns of a 6.2 VH/VH Templar game, see my AAR.

The most effective strategy I've found is have a decent mix of infantry cavalry and missiles, or rather have a mix of units that matches or exceeds the capabilities of their units.

I first try to flank the enemy with cavalry, finding openings to charge soft targets (missiles and non-spears) with my cavalry, avoiding their spears were possible.

Next, if the enemy infantry hasn't started marching towards my line, initiate missile fire, moving my lines as close as is necessary to get within range. A few volleys of missiles, particularly when they have lost all their missiles is a guaranteed method of getting them to come to you. Once they engage, charge from behind with cavalry and watch the enemy rout.

If the enemy comes with mostly spears, I usually just march in formation towards them, get my cavalry behind them and rout them.

My Templar game has for the most part utilized the Hospitaller Knights (and dismounted version) almost from the beginning having gotten a Hospitaller Guild very early on in Antioch. This has been essential as the heavy cavalry has comprised a significant part of my strategy, especially early on. I have Hospitaller guilds in atleast Antioch (HQ), Damascus, Diyarbakir, Gaza and possibly one or two other places, making it easy to retrain them when needed.

I've only started to be able to train the Templar Knights, but that's not particularly surprising only 60 or so turns in, only because I had captured Caesarea which was sufficiently advanced to have the buildings necessary. Without the Hospitaller Knights though for much of the game up till now, I wouldn't have had any heavy infantry or cavalry.

[JorisofHolland]

I saw them quite often grow powerfull and even crush the Golden Horde when it emerged. Are those guys already there? I don't remember the turn number they arrive, but I don't see them on your map.

[StyggeKrumpen]

Playing the templars is much fun no matter how you play them. Early on i like troops like the templar squires with nice maces they kill muslim spearmen easy. The crosbows i think u shouldd not use because templars have a lot of good archers available especially the byzantine local archers are good and you need fast firing archers not slow crossbows to kill muslim horsearchers which is the biggest problem. Also remember to get guilds i prefer Hospitallaers but they are very much both the same. Good luck.

[Fremen Jones]

1 General, 5 noble spearmen, 2 templar guards, 3 templar squires, 4 archers, 5 cavalry units.

Or 5 templars, 5 swiss guards, 5 cavalry, 4 archers & 1 general when you have much money ..

But is it a good idea to use knights templars against AP units of Egypt, Kwaz & Turks?

[JorisofHolland]

If you charge them with cavalry they will rout. Or at least be to damaged to fight back. Unless you mean the foot version. I'm not sure about it, I think you'll loose against them.

[Fremen Jones]

If you charge them with cavalry they will rout. Or at least be to damaged to fight back. Unless you mean the foot version. I'm not sure about it, I think you'll loose against them.

No that's not what I mean ..

First line is spearmen to take on the cavalry, second line are the knight templars to deal with enemy infantry.

My question is if the templar knights are good enough against the armour piercing units of Egypt, Kwaz, turks, ..

[meese]

They're basically better than everything else you've got. The two-handed swordsmen/axemen won't cut it as backbone infantry.

[Goofy]

If I had to form an "as-perfect-as-possible" army, it would look like this:

1 Bodyguard
3 Trebuchet
4 Dismounted French Archers
4 Noble Spearmen
3 Templar Guard
2 Swiss Guard
3 Templar Confrere Knights
+Terrain providing a defensive advantage

But as that army requires lots of money and high-level recruitment buildings, that's not always possible. In that case, something like this would be reasonable:

1 Bodyguard
3 Trebuchet
4 Muslim Archers
6 Noble Spearmen
3 Dismounted Knights Templar
3 Knights Hospitaller or other heavy cavalry

This army can give you victories, no elite troops but if you can play, they can crush the enemy effectively.

By the way I doubt Togukawa needs our help anymore. Haven't we spammed here enough?
But I believe this can keep opened as long as the discussion is fruity.

[DeMolay]

The idea of trebuchet is nice , i rarely use them in field battle , usually i let them in a bordering city or ship ready to be used for a siege , but i will try to use them more in open field battles .

Usually with this faction , i use bodyguard + 2 heavy cavalry ( Templar or Hospitaller knights) + 6x archers (muslim archers or french dismounted) + 5 spearmen + 5 heavy infantry + 1 swiss guard .

Works well for me when i defend on elevated terrain . I use my spears and swiss guards to defend the archers and hold the line as long as possible , while the heavy infantry tries to flank whenever possible , and i spend much of my time micro-managing cavalry charges in the rear of the ennemy or busy killing the ennemy general quickly with repeated coordinated charges of my 3 heavy cav units on him