Potential for the Night's Watch and Others

[Alesch]

I saw in the FAQ that there were currently no plans in place for the Night's Watch or the Others. Personally, I think that they're an integral part of the setting so I thought of a way to implement them. The reasoning in the FAQ is perfectly correct, the Night's Watch would be boring to play and could result in the Starks taking the wall. The solution? Turn the Night's Watch into the Papacy. They stay neutral, no one ever attacks the Papacy without inviting some serious consequences. The Night's Watch could then call for support from the Lords to the Wall by calling for a crusade. It would probably take some fiddling to get it right but in the end I think it would work fairly well.

My idea for the Other's might be more wishful thinking. At the very least it would be more work. In the books the Others raise the dead to fight. I know that the game keeps track of casualties, so I was wondering if it might be possible to have regiments of wights based on the number of enemy casualties. If there are 120 wights in a regiment and the Others kill 500 men then they get 4 regiments of wights at the end of the battle.

[Jerat]

Good Ideas. But it would be fun just to fight back some spawning stacks of wildlings in the north when you play with the Starks.

[Elmo Kill]

The crusade north would be a pain. I mean, imagine Dorne joining the crusade and traveling ALLLL the way north. And just as you reach the wall, oh, King's Landing completed the crusade. Now you have to walk all the way back through thoroughly unfriendly territory.

Not to say its a bad idea. But the mechanics of it need some work...

Maybe just have Historical Battles, Wildlings versus the Night Watch etc.

[History_Buff]

I like your idea for the Nights Watch, but it does need some work. I do not like having the Others in the game as in the books, they have yet to appear anywhere near the wall and they would be a pain for the development team to make. They would have to create completely new units, as none of the existing units would work for them. Also, don't forget that they are supposedly unable to cross the wall, so they would either be stuck north of the wall for the entire game or breach the wall, which would be completely against what the books say about them

[Cazac]

Aye, for version 1.o i think the watch/others idea is a tad too strtchy for the team, we should stick to the basics for now, see how that turns out, then work out some ideas for a further version

[Werthead]

Yup, the idea is to get the War of the Five Kings sorted, all the factions up to speed and everything working there, and then look at ideas to bring in the wildlings (maybe use a similar system to THIRD AGE's Trolls and Mumakil for giants and mammoths?), the Others and the Night's Watch for a later release, as well as Daenerys and the wars in the east (which would be pretty complex, as you'd also have to bring in quite a few new factions as well, such as Slaver's Bay/Ghiscar, Qarth, the Dothraki, each of the Free Cities and so on).

[eatme]

I 'd say the introducing the Eastern continent would not fit well into the map scale for westeros, what with the number of regions available cap. Besides Eastern tribes and countries are a "whole different story" even in the books. But this would fit well into a separate campaign though.

[History_Buff]

That is the beauty of my idea. I do not think that the Americas count towards the province cap in the original, and making the Eastern and Western Continent act like the Americas and Europe might solve the problem

[eatme]

Afaik, the Kingdoms region cap is 200, including a sea region.
So that should include all regions on the map including americas ofc.

But the idea of having different continents is interesting, although it 'd come at the expense of the regions in Westeros. And so the larger map scale overall.
Personally I like a smaller scale map with max number of regions. Hence the approach with separate campaigns.

[History_Buff]

The only problem is that several of the Eastern countries, especially the Free Cities, have significant interactions with Westeros, not to mention Daenarys if the team decides to add her. A good idea might be to compromise on this point and add in Slavers Bay and Daenarys, who should begin as a horde faction if she is added, and the Free Cities in the Westeros campaign and have a seperate campaign that focuses exclusively that focuses exclusively on the Eastern Kingdoms, most of whom have only limited interactions with Westeros. Most of the rest of the East mainly interacts with Westeros through trade, which could be simulated by having certain provinces being trading centers that bring in these goods, therefore adding value to them. You might also be able to build an improvement for coastal cities that allows these good to come in. You could do a similiar thing with the Western Continent for the Eastern Kingdoms

[Dizoakius Maximus]

Best to leave the Night Watch as an unplayable AI faction (ie. The Papacy, that idea was genius); that way they can keep getting AI money bonuses to maintain their hold the Wall against Wildling attacks (which should spawn frequently and just bash their heads against the Wall, except for every once in a while when a HUGE army spawns and the Night Watch is forced to call for aid from the lands to the south.)

The Others could be done just as events, like a message pops up saying something about recent weirdness just beyond the wall. No need for Wights to show up on the battlefield, at least not until we know more about The Others and their intentions towards Westeros as a whole.

[History_Buff]

That actually sounds like a very good way to implement the Nights Watch and Wildlings. They should be an unplayable faction and not a rebel army that has no cities and just spawns armies. It should be possible, just make them a Horde faction that continually spawns armies. After several repulsed incursions, One BIG incursion should happen led by Mance Rayder that requires help to be given. If Mance's invasion is beaten you should then have a message that says that the wildlings are removed as a threat which effectively stops the incursions. I would love for the Wildlings to be playable, but I already know that is not possible because it would be hell to implement so as to both be accurate to the books and ensure they do not overrun the Starks in every game that the human player does not control them.

[peanut8]

But what would you care if you weren't playing as the Starks or their allies (Tullys and Arryns)? If you were playing as someone who was fighting against the Starks, you'd even welcome a wildling invasion.

[History_Buff]

Then you do not send help, You do not have to, but you should have the option. Who is to say alliances will not change in game. If possible, you should also implement that if the Starks and their allies are controlled by the ai, they automatically send aid while those who are at war with the Starks refuse to send it. I also said earlier that their should be incentives to encourage you to send aid. Just because certain Houses would have no reason to send aid does not mean that the entire mechanism should be removed

[Dizoakius Maximus]

Then you do not send help, You do not have to, but you should have the option. Who is to say alliances will not change in game. If possible, you should also implement that if the Starks and their allies are controlled by the ai, they automatically send aid while those who are at war with the Starks refuse to send it. I also said earlier that their should be incentives to encourage you to send aid. Just because certain Houses would have no reason to send aid does not mean that the entire mechanism should be removed

Incentives like what exactly? The only thing I'd worry about is if the Nights Watch starts handing out units as a reward for stopping an invasion. Remember, the watch is supposed to stand apart and not take sides. What else could you possibly have them give you for donating troops or money to the Watch?

[History_Buff]

Handing out units would not be true to the books. They do not have the manpower to spare and would not do so because they are supposed to be neutral. However, you could get Wildling units. Think about it, Stannis settled defeated Wildlings south of the wall, and that feature could simulate that. You should be able to recruit Wildling units in one city where you have settled them.They should be settled in the province with the lowest population and they should now be armed, trained,and equiped by you so they should be good units when you combine the strength and ferocity of the Wildlings with Westerosi discipline, armor, and weapons. I already suggested that their should be several small incursions that they can handle on their own and one BIG one that they request aid in crushing. If you crush this incursion it should not happen again. That would mean that you would be the only house to have these powerful units. Also, the Wildlings should have crap units before crossing the wall, but if they cross it and manage to take a settlement, they should then be able to equip themselves like Westerosi and be able to recruit good units. That would allow for them to become a legitimate threat to you if you do not stop them soon enough.

[Dizoakius Maximus]

Handing out units would not be true to the books. They do not have the manpower to spare and would not do so because they are supposed to be neutral. However, you could get Wildling units. Think about it, Stannis settled defeated Wildlings south of the wall, and that feature could simulate that. You should be able to recruit Wildling units in one city where you have settled them.They should be settled in the province with the lowest population and they should now be armed, trained,and equiped by you so they should be good units when you combine the strength and ferocity of the Wildlings with Westerosi discipline, armor, and weapons. I already suggested that their should be several small incursions that they can handle on their own and one BIG one that they request aid in crushing. If you crush this incursion it should not happen again. That would mean that you would be the only house to have these powerful units. Also, the Wildlings should have crap units before crossing the wall, but if they cross it and manage to take a settlement, they should then be able to equip themselves like Westerosi and be able to recruit good units. That would allow for them to become a legitimate threat to you if you do not stop them soon enough.

I like it!

[Lordinquisitor]

Well, i followed the progress of this mod some time and i`d like to give some feedback on the night watch.

I see no need to turn them into the papacy- It`s unrealisitc if, for example, dorne would send help. Just make them a "normal" faction which is unable to wage war against the other, non wildling, factions.

As some guys and the third age mod have shown creating the wall is no problem- The only way through the wall should be Eastwatch, Castle Black and the shadow tower. I don`t think that the other castles should be added, not even as forts, for they were abandoned.

To make them even more unique they should be unable to recruit any units in their castles- They should only be able to recruit new soldiers as "mercenaries". So in order to get new units you`d have to send some general through westeros, picking convicts (And one or the other volunteer) up.

The wildlings should be represented as a few different tribes, and some would simply be rebels. Now, they would occasionaly attack the wall. Creating an "Mance ryder papal faction" could represent this.. (Or the wildlings could simply call jihads.)

(Another bonus could be the emerging of the "Stannis/Night watch" alliance. If certain conditions are met [The Nightwatch and stannis are both in trouble] the nightwatch might ally themself with stannis. If they do this they gain access to stannis knights and stuff, but they lose their diplomatic immunity.)